Check these drums

[WhiteStrat]

I'm curious how the drums hold up in the mix--snare especially: is it a bit dead and lifeless?

Actually, feel free to comment on anything you like (it could all help) but right now I'm trying to settle on the drum sound for this project. (FYI--the bass guitar is a scratch track.)

Feel free to listen to the whole thing, but the drums really get going in the first full chorus, at about 2:50.

More Than Enough

 

[Greg_L]

The drums are out of balance. You've got the toms and kick right up front, and the snare is sitting way back there like it's in another room. Are these live drums? I think I'm hearing some phase problems in the snare. Every now and then it sounds like it's jumping from the right speaker. Maybe the drummer moved around too much? Maybe it's reverb? I dunno. Whatever it is, the snare's tone seems okay, but it's place in the mix does sound funny. Get it in balance with the rest of the kit and go from there.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Thanks Greg! Yeah, these are live drums. What you're saying makes sense--and that's probably what I was hearing when I thought it sounded "lifeless."

Everything was mic'd, but I liked the tone of the snare from the OH's--so the snare's close mic is hardly in the mix--but like you mentioned, with the toms and the kick, it's almost all close mic.

That would explain why the snare sounds behind the rest of the kit. I'll work on getting the snare mic closer to the room/oh sound that I like, then bring it up in the mix.

 

[ido1957]

Sounds good and the fix per Greg should be fairly quick. Wish I could play drums but my rhythm, well, that's another story....

 

[WhiteStrat]

Sounds good and the fix per Greg should be fairly quick. Wish I could play drums but my rhythm, well, that's another story....

I wish I could play 'em too. I can't count to four and chew gum at the same time. That's my kit in my studio (I wanted to learn to record drums, so I went ahead and got 'em) but I only mess with them when no one's home!

That's my son-in-law, Josh, playing on that tune.

 

[jeffmaher]

Nice kit sounds except for the snare. I don't know what caused it, but it reminds me of what happens to a distant "X" stereo-miked acoustic...lots of room sound reflections...comes from everywhere.....no point location. I reckon that's a big problem when you got a bunch of mics on a kit?

But that's not the biggest problem with the tune, I think. The music is kickin'; but the vocal melody, and interplay with the second vox, is nothing to grab on to. I think, IMHO, that a little more rigidity in the structure, and a little more note strength and melodic continuity...where it kind of meanders... would put the work over the top. The only sniglet of melody that stuck was the opening verse. Simple, effective: memorable. FWIIWYMMV

 

[Greg_L]

Thanks Greg! Yeah, these are live drums. What you're saying makes sense--and that's probably what I was hearing when I thought it sounded "lifeless."

Everything was mic'd, but I liked the tone of the snare from the OH's--so the snare's close mic is hardly in the mix--but like you mentioned, with the toms and the kick, it's almost all close mic.

That would explain why the snare sounds behind the rest of the kit. I'll work on getting the snare mic closer to the room/oh sound that I like, then bring it up in the mix.

Use more of the snare close-mic and hang some reverb on it. Bring it in until it's just noticeable. Then maybe bring the toms down a little to help balance it out. Get the balance right and you'll get the room mic ambience and clarity of the close mics for a killer sounding drum track.

 

[WhiteStrat]

Nice kit sounds except for the snare. I don't know what caused it, but it reminds me of what happens to a distant "X" stereo-miked acoustic...lots of room sound reflections...comes from everywhere.....no point location. I reckon that's a big problem when you got a bunch of mics on a kit?

But that's not the biggest problem with the tune, I think. The music is kickin'; but the vocal melody, and interplay with the second vox, is nothing to grab on to. I think, IMHO, that a little more rigidity in the structure, and a little more note strength and melodic continuity...where it kind of meanders... would put the work over the top. The only sniglet of melody that stuck was the opening verse. Simple, effective: memorable. FWIIWYMMV

thanks jeff! The snare thing--what you're describing could theoretically happen with a lot of mics on a kit, but I gate every track. So there's no snare on my toms tracks, kick track etc. The only snare is on the snare track and the OH/Room mics. In this case I think it's not enough snare mic, and too much OH mic (especially compared to the other drum sounds).

And I also agree with you on the vocal melody thing. But she's not around to sing 'em again. This is a weird project--she came into the studio, played piano, sang and left. She only had a two week window to get some piano and vocal tracks down. (a total of 23)

Some are just simple ballads--her voice & piano. Others will have some orchestration. Still others (like this one) will be "full band" numbers. The kicker is that I'm adding everything after the fact. I captured the piano in MIDI so I could use my samples (better than her keyboard's) and also so I can tighten up the tracks after the drums are played. The drummer played with the scratch piano track, but followed the click tighter than she did, so I have to go back and "fix" her.

Then after that, I add the rest of the band and/or orchestration.

How's that for backwards?

 

[WhiteStrat]

Use more of the snare close-mic and hang some reverb on it. Bring it in until it's just noticeable. Then maybe bring the toms down a little to help balance it out. Get the balance right and you'll get the room mic ambience and clarity of the close mics for a killer sounding drum track.

This sounds like the ticket. I appreciate the listen and input. I'll get an update posted sometime over the weekend.

 

[RAMI]

I expected it to sound worse after reading the comments...but yeah, something's weird.

Do you have both overheads equal distance from the snare? Because I could swear I hear the snare coming way more from the right side. Also, flip the phase on the snare and see what happens.

Cool beat and a pretty good drum sound. Just needs some tweaking. It's a lot better than my 1st 25 drum tracks were, that's for sure

 

[WhiteStrat]

I expected it to sound worse after reading the comments...but yeah, something's weird.

Do you have both overheads equal distance from the snare? Because I could swear I hear the snare coming way more from the right side. Also, flip the phase on the snare and see what happens.

Cool beat and a pretty good drum sound. Just needs some tweaking. It's a lot better than my 1st 25 drum tracks were, that's for sure

Thanks Rami. I don't know how I missed it until earlier today, but yeah, the snare is on the right. Here's the thing: I'm not using overheads. I had a pair set up in XY, and then a wide spaced pair of nice tube condensers out in the room. When I listened I liked the room mics much better than the OHs (the cymbals were more balanced in the room mics; too big and harsh compared to the rest of the kit in the OHs) so I went with the room mics. Because of their distance I had to nudge the tracks back to line up with the close mics--but I'll be damned, I completely overlooked the fact that this would move my snare off to the right!

My close snare mic is dead center. I'll see if I can compensate for the room mics by moving it to the left. If that just ends up sounding weird, I'll have to go back to the OHs.

Thanks for compliments on the overall sound--FWIW (and it's probably obvious) this is nohwere near raw. Each piece is gated, EQ'd, enveloped, and compressed, etc.

 

[jeffmaher]

"How's that for backwards?"

Oh yeah! I remember the project from a previous post!
Got yer work cut out!
The pizza resistance would be snipping and sticking together a cogent vocal track from available material. The music's cookin'. And parts of the vocal are real good. Send bill for cost over-run. :^)

 

[WhiteStrat]

"How's that for backwards?"

Oh yeah! I remember the project from a previous post!
Got yer work cut out!
The pizza resistance would be snipping and sticking together a cogent vocal track from available material. The music's cookin'. And parts of the vocal are real good. Send bill for cost over-run. :^)

I think I will be comping vocals on a couple/few tunes. I've got at least 2 takes for each.

 

[joeym]

Beautiful voice, great song, Bob!
Like the guys said, it's the snare that isn't there yet. To me it sounds like it has a lot of bottom snare making it sound a bit loose. I think if it was a bit tighter it would sound better. Otherwise the drums sound great. Are you gonna have more instruments in this? Hope you post the finished version.

Joe

 

[WhiteStrat]

Beautiful voice, great song, Bob!
Like the guys said, it's the snare that isn't there yet. To me it sounds like it has a lot of bottom snare making it sound a bit loose. I think if it was a bit tighter it would sound better. Otherwise the drums sound great. Are you gonna have more instruments in this? Hope you post the finished version.

Joe

This one will probably get nothing more in terms of instruments. The project has 23 songs total, and the singer/writer is nothing but vox and piano! She sees a lot of her songs that simply and left it up to me to add to some. I've only got 6 done--so I think this one may stay this way. Got lots of others to start building up, then I'll see how the whole thing sounds as a collection--maybe add as needed then.