Cheating?

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Re: Re: differing opinion...

badgas said:

The expeption if no one except the artist writing the song and his/her very close family memeber are the only ones to hear it.
But for commercial value, or for repeat listening by people who want to listen to good music, a song needs to be reworked in some manner from the first writing of inspiration.
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I couldn't agree with you more badgas, it is very rare for the original writing of a song to be polished and ready for the world. But I personally feel there is more integrity in writers who write totally from the heart.
Writing totally from emotion and what you feel without the use of 'tools' doesn't mean there are no re-writes, edit's or adjustments. It just means the core of the song has some sincerity to it!
Once the songwriter comes to rely on these tools, ie. making up a large portion of the song from it. In my opinion, its not really coming from the writer's heart...
I've tried these tools, but to me, they aren't from my inner voice, my mind, my heart.
By all means, write, rewrite, rewrite again, use the rhyming dictionary or thesarus for a word or too, but do not make a habit of relying on it in every song.
Majority of my lyrics are re-written 5-6 times before I settle... But my preference is a song that reflects the writers mind...
Scott
 
Re: Re: differing opinion...

charlie b said:
Yes, but doesn't it come down to being your choice whether you use that word or not? You decide if it fits...therefore it is your own creative idea. Its not always possible to find the right word to fit the meaning you're wanting to convey. A dictionary and a thesaurus allow more accuracy of meaning.
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Yes of course you decide which word you use, and sparatically, these can be useful to help you find a word you are looking for. I know a few songwriters who use these as the basis for there songs!
When the thesaurus and rhyming dictionary words have large substance in your songs though, even though they're only individual words, lots of individual words add up. Before you know it, you have a song of words that you wouldn't use!
I'm not saying the thesaurus and rhyming dictionary doesn't have its place...I do use it on the occassional song myself.
I love songs that are sincere, honest...I have heard many songs from amateur and pro songwriters who have used these "TOOLS" not as tools, they sound fake and manufactured.
Thats just my opinion!
Scott
 
Yep, like the old saying...

...it's not the tool, but what you do with it that matters!
 
It is the result that matters, not how you get there. Of course, the clever one can do without any tools and win the respect of those who happen to know how clever he is. But does it make the song any better?

That said, I find little help in the dictionaries. When they come up with words I haven't thought of myself, those words are usually the odd ones, rarely used words. Words that may feel like a bump in the road in my song.
 
I like to write songs. But, being a purist, I'm mighty concerned that my inner voice and emotional integrity are not compromised. Therefore, I never record my songs because all recording mediums are artificial representations of the actual voice and instrument waveforms used to make the sound of the song. As a matter of fact, even the mics and preamps color the original sound--no integrity there, so recording is out for purist me.

...hmmm...maybe I shouldn't play my songs with these electric guitars and synths, which are really just bastard abominations of real acoustic instruments. I think they spoil the emotional purity and integrity of the song by cheating it out of natural acoustic sounds. Yeah, that LP-Marshall amp combo really distorts my inner voice. For purity sake, from this point forward I'll just stick with acoustic instruments. They're natural...

...wait, acoustics instruments are really just synthetic man-made air vibrators/noise generators...they aren't natural at all: neither God nor Earth made them. Hmmm...this won't do...this won't do at all. Perhaps I better only use natural sounds--like the sound my cat makes when I pull his tail--there's emotional integrity in that. I think I'll need to get more cats, though...

...and as far as lyrics, go. Forget it. The English language--or any language--is far too limited to express my true inner emotions. Think about it; language can communicate what we think, but it is woefully inadequate when we use it to try to communicate how we feel. How unpure it is! What line of lyric could possibly express the maddening mixture of emotions I felt after my first real girlfriend broke up with me. :(


So...from this point forward, I pledge, in order not to cheat my emotional integrity, that all instruments used in my music will be natural (I'll need soprano, tenor, alto and bass voiced cats). And furthermore, I will use only emotionally generated human sounds--no lyrics--to express my feelings in my music (so I may maintain the inner integrity of my emotions). I'll use (thanks Roget):

shrieks and screams and rasps and roars,
hisses and sighs, shrill whistles and whines,
giggles and titters and chuckles and chortles,
maybe a guffaw and hearty horselaugh!
and more!...

and an occasional well placed belch or fart!:eek:
 
Thanks for the sarcasm tdukex!
You are taking what I said to extreme's.
For the most part, the vocals are the most important part of a song...There isn't anything wrong with vocal colouration from preamps, digital recording, effects etc. I'm not saying there is anything wrong with a thesaurus or rhyming dictionary if not overused!
Bloody hell! Simply, there are many people who i think use it too much! And too me often it is obvious that they are not writing/singing with there own inner voice.
You do not have to have experienced what you write about! Its about telling stories, majority of authors do not write about personal experiences.
Nor am I condeming Electric Guitar, Synthisers etc. they in so many case's are the best sounds to enhance the story and mood!
Tell me, you ever been in a class room when you can tell a child's parent did the assignment for them???? You can tell that what is written doesn't sound like the person!
This doesn't just apply to children. I bet in senior essays you can tell which sections are created from the writer and which sections are copied from someone elses words!
To me, its the same thing!
If you're telling the story, use your own words...

Use your dictionary, thesaurus and rhyming book where NEEDED, but be true to yourself!
 
Of course, Scott, I'm just having some fun, and I mostly agree with your basic contention...and I promise I will only use, utilize, employ, exploit my thesaurus when needed.:D
 
I missed this one.

My understanding is that most of the pros use these tools. Why shouldn't we? We just need to know how to use them correctly ;) :D
 
Thanks tdukex, I've copied your post and will use it the next time I end up in one of those stupid debates. The last one I had was with a guitarist that didn't like the Line 6 variax - and never would use it. That would be ok by me, but he hadn't even heard any samples or seen one in real life - and still had a firm opinion based on some concept of it not being "real". I pretty much used the same line of thoughts you used. This was even funnier as I knew that he tried to get different tones and even imitate other guitarists sound with his equipment.

I showed him the Line 6 site btw:
"All guitar have a soul. Pity yours only has one."

Does that make the Variax schizofrenic? If so does it come with a shrink?
 
Im not bothered too much about whats what with the process as long as the end result justifies it.

Having said that you cant beat a bit of raw soul in the human voice. (im thinking loadsa stuff from Percy Sledge "when a man loves a woman" to Liam Gallacher from Oasis - when you mean it, it SOUNDS like its meant and thats the stuff that can send a shiver down your spine)
 
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