Cheating?

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kdawg

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I don't know about how most people write, and I wouldn't be inclined to think that there's a right or a wrong way to write a song but...I know when I sit down to write I do it with a thusorus (I don't know how to spell it) and a rhyming dictionary beside me at all times. Sometimes I think that it dosn't yeild very genuine results, or that It isn't really my voice.
does anybody else write like this? and get the same feelings, or do you think I'm just being too critical?
 
Next to my studio mnitors are the following books:

Thesaurus
Dictionary
Rhyming dictionaries (2ea)
Bartlett's Familiar Quotations

I guess I'm going to rot in songwriter's hell 'cause that's gotta be cheating!! Oh well - I'll meet a lot of famous people there for sure!!
Milan
 
it's not cheating man.....they are tools like anything else...

My opinion on originality is that the Hook should come from your own head though......the rest can develop any which way....


Joe
 
why search for a ryme in your head when you can take rhyming dictionary and find all the rymes for that word. You can then write down all the "useable" rhymes for that word on a sheet of paper. It makes writing go alot faster IMO.

Also, if you have a hook or title you like you can look up the end word and see how many rhymes that word has. That saves you from beating your head against the wall for 4 hours and finally saying "this won't work"
 
differing opinion...

Sorry to say guys, but i disagree on this one.

I am currently writing about 1 song a week and having it recorded in that week. I do not use a dictionary and thesaurus or rhyming book.

I'm not saying it is cheating to use one... I'm saying all your lyrics should come from the heart, from your own inner voice, and while ever they're coming from a book, or they're words you wouldn't usually use, the song isn't you anymore...

Thats just how i feel
Scott
 
Try this approach...

kdawg -- I certainly wouldn't say that using a rhyming dictionary is cheating. On the contrary, I agree with most of the other posters who say that it can be a valuable tool. The real question is whether or not this tool works for you.

You say that the results don't sound genuine, or don't sound like your voice. Try this -- As you look over the possible rhymes, consider which of these words you would normally use in your speech or in your poems. Discard any words that aren't "you". Then consider which of the remaining words provide an opporunity for a logical continuation of the theme that you are developing. Discard any words that don't match this criterion. Now you are down to a short list of good candidate words. Play with different phrases that incorporate these words. Create several phrases before you decide which phrase gives you the best results.

After trying this approach, you might just find that a rhyming dictionary can work for you after all.
 
Using a dictionary or any other tool is no more cheating than a carpenter using a hammer or a painter useing a brush. Whatever it takes to get the job done to the best of ones ability.

When I first write a song I let words flow out of me - and if I can't come up with a line here or there I don't worry about it. Then comes the re-write, that is when I try to improve a phrase or change to a more creative word and if I need a dictionary or thesaurus to improve the song - so be it.

The emotional content of a song does depend on words which have meaning -(from the heart) but the craft of songwriting (to me the real enjoyable part of it) requires more than emotion - it requires creating images, getting the story told quickly and effectively - which tools can help to achieve.

Regarding rhymes - while words don't have to rhyme, part of the craft is to use clever phrases and clever rhymes. Often that can make the difference between a song and a good song.

Often it comes down to "why do we write"?. If it is to express our emotions, then maybe we don't care about improving the craft. However, if we write with some hope of commercial success - then the craft becomes much more important.
 
We are writers...and what ever tools work to help us to achieve that goal is not cheating. Sometimes you can get a great idea just flippin through the dictonary. Is getting an idea from someone elses pain cheating as well?..we see...we feel..we write..thats all folks
 
I like to find really old thesauruses, they have great phrases & slang that aren't used much anymore. They can really spruce up lyric.
 
it's like making a beats some people use samples whereas others won't go near it (some integrity BS), and it's all a matter of preference

try to write a song without your dictionnary or your thesaurus
that will help you understand what you already know from those replies above
 
When stuck

...I use a thesaurus and an on-line rhyming dictionary.

I have got some great lines just by seeing a word I hadn't thought of which can take the song into a slightly different path sometimes, but as long as it works.

I remeber once reading a biography of Bob Dylan, someone told him abot rhyming doctionaries and he replied he wished he known about them years ago!

If you don't have one to hand another technique is to go through the aplhabet in front of the word you are trying to rhyme with. So if the word were trousers fro example, a-rousers, b-rousers, -drousers, g-rousers, h - ousers...you get the idea. Although it's nonsense it can spark off another idea which gives you a good useable line. if that doesn't swork then get out that thesaurus!
 
Re: differing opinion...

Scott Mellish said:
Sorry to say guys, but i disagree on this one.

I am currently writing about 1 song a week and having it recorded in that week. I do not use a dictionary and thesaurus or rhyming book.

I'm not saying it is cheating to use one... I'm saying all your lyrics should come from the heart, from your own inner voice, and while ever they're coming from a book, or they're words you wouldn't usually use, the song isn't you anymore...

Thats just how i feel
Scott
Click to expand...

Yes, but doesn't it come down to being your choice whether you use that word or not? You decide if it fits...therefore it is your own creative idea. Its not always possible to find the right word to fit the meaning you're wanting to convey. A dictionary and a thesaurus allow more accuracy of meaning.
 
dragonworks said:
Why does anything have to rhyme?
Click to expand...
It doesn't.
What rhyming does is 'catch' the ear.
Makes it easier to remember, flows, creates a rhythmatic sense, which we humans call music.

People respond and remember things better when it rhymes.
For example, I bet you can sing the ABC song and follow the melody very easily.
London Bridge, etc.

On the other hand, the Pledge Allecgence to the Flag, was a daily occurance, but the meter was there as an aid.

Things don't have to rhyme. But it sounds nice, it can be remembered easily, and its one of those phenomena that we humans respond to.
 
Re: differing opinion...

Scott Mellish said:
Sorry to say guys, but i disagree on this one.

I am currently writing about 1 song a week and having it recorded in that week. I do not use a dictionary and thesaurus or rhyming book.

I'm not saying it is cheating to use one... I'm saying all your lyrics should come from the heart, from your own inner voice, and while ever they're coming from a book, or they're words you wouldn't usually use, the song isn't you anymore...

Thats just how i feel
Scott
Click to expand...
What the heart usually says, and how we intrupret it in words sometimes doesn't come out with the same meaning.
We tend to use words in our songs that we use in every day language. It's more familiar to us.
How many times have you written a song and, for example, the thrid line in the second verse, doesn't sit well in your craw. You have a gut feeling that the word isn't the right word. After playing the song for some length of time, that feeling is still there.
Using the tools available, we can fix that problem.
Every pro songwriter I've talked to and listened to or read about, uses every tool as his/her disposal.
I'm not saying all, but a very, very high percentage of songs written need to be polished up in someway or another.

The expeption if no one except the artist writing the song and his/her very close family memeber are the only ones to hear it.
But for commercial value, or for repeat listening by people who want to listen to good music, a song needs to be reworked in some manner from the first writing of inspiration.
 
If you use Music Theory to help you write a chord progression are you cheating? If so, then so is using the books mentioned.
 
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