S
shackrock
New member
just interested, anyone know what the difference between an advertised "music CD-R" and "data CD-R" is? I suspect nothing....but not sure.
minofifa
New member
..
i've noticed that different CD-R's have different colors on their bottoms. Some are barely colored, while some are greenish, and some are dark blue. I wonder if one type plays better in home electronic CD players than the other type. I doubt there is much difference though
i've noticed that different CD-R's have different colors on their bottoms. Some are barely colored, while some are greenish, and some are dark blue. I wonder if one type plays better in home electronic CD players than the other type. I doubt there is much difference though
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Music CD-Rs are more expensive because an additional tax is added to their cost.
And the more insidious difference is that the copybit is preset to ON, disabling you or anyone from making digital copies of that disc.
And the more insidious difference is that the copybit is preset to ON, disabling you or anyone from making digital copies of that disc.
DAFFYDRUNK
New member
I guess I've never knew there was a difference. Didn't know they actually did something different to the music CDRs. Just figured you were paying extra for a "music" CDR. Either a cd player can relate to cdr or not. I guess I'll be skipping the "music" CDRs for sure.
Lately I've bought plain jane TDK Data 48x CDRs that work great in anything. If I'm buring audio CDs I still burn no greater than 8x in an efford to get deeper pits, but I'm probably just paranoid...
Lately I've bought plain jane TDK Data 48x CDRs that work great in anything. If I'm buring audio CDs I still burn no greater than 8x in an efford to get deeper pits, but I'm probably just paranoid...
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Problem is, some of the semi-pro and consumer oriented gear REQUIRE you to use Music-only CD-Rs.........
S
shackrock
New member
hmmm...well i'm glad I have a DAW then. ha.
anyway, copybit protection? is that a joke? does it do anything??? haha.
and yes i know about different colored bottoms - the darker the better! ha
anyway, copybit protection? is that a joke? does it do anything??? haha.
and yes i know about different colored bottoms - the darker the better! ha
Blue Bear Sound
New member
On the gear that forces you to use the music-only CD-Rs, it certainly does.... obviously on more pro-oriented gear that ignores or allows toggling of the copybit setting, it's irrelevant.shackrock said:
But at the consumer level it certainly does block digital copying to a degree.
13th_Omen
New member
Certain colors work in certain players. I have noticed that the dark blue or black work the best in my car stereo. To take the cake... the new Verbatim Vinyl cd-rs work awesome and are designed for the original recording of music. I love them! They look like baby records!
Blue Bear Sound
New member
What exactly does "designed for the original recording of music" mean?????13th_Omen said:
J
jcnoernberg
New member
It is my understanding that a music cd-r is required while using a stand-alone, component system style burner. I've tried to use a normal data cd-r at work on a sony burner, and a harman kardon and it gave me an error on both. on a computer burner, I've used both and have never had a problem. hope that helps somewhat...
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Ah... I see.... but there's a difference between "the original recording of music" and "the recording of original music" (which is what the site described...)!13th_Omen said:
13th_Omen
New member
I don't know, they are both pretty much the same meaning.... in a way. But if you want to get technical! I was not really quoting previously. I apologize. I must be punished, stricken down, crucify me damnit!
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Your punishment is to be forced to endure tracking a bad singer in a poor-sounding room, using a radio shack mic thru a Rolls or Behringer pre for a period of no less than 12 hours.......
13th_Omen
New member
Ouch!
Just kill me.
Just kill me.
Blue Bear Sound
New member
Wise choice!!!
Anthony
8-bit gen. (Volken)
Well far from suggesting that home ones are bad or unreliable, after all, I mostly use them as well.
There are many things most of you are taking for granted.
However, to understand the nature of this process and to answer this question I have to get little technical - not to much.
Let me explain from the start why you wouldn’t benefit industrial blank disc in your PC/Mac drive and why pro pressing is more reliable then home made:
1) JITTER
When digital signal output (CD/DAT…) is not matched with phase and frequency while being recorded to say, Hard drive or CDR, then we speak about Jitter and supporting distortion, one very, very evident in timbre of acoustical instruments on higher frequencies.
First of all, you have to face the truth that computer CD drives are designed to transfer data source and not audio files.
Mechanics and mostly servo motors used in computer CD drives have far greater tolerance then even better home CD player, I wont even speak about dedicated pro write machines.
This forces fluctuation of rotation speed and moving head with laser beam
2) SYNCHRONIZATION
Problem with computer drives is also synchronization between output and input. This shouldn’t be of any concern - BUT - only if data transfer SPEED is not too big. However, as you all know computer/home drives are getting faster and faster, but for DATA,
not for AUDIO FILES,because servo motors are pushed even more while at same inferior quality compared to better CD players and pro writing devices.
3) INDUSTRIAL Laser heads
Industrial laser heads used in Pro machines have up to 30% more laser power then used in consumer ones.
When combined with Pro industrial blank CD’s they are more reliable, due to the nature of transfer and all mentioned above…, result is factory pressed CD, one you buy in CD stores.
The problem today…, many semi pro devices are making claims that they have pro units, when even average user can recognize just looking from outside that they are using generic computer CD drives,much the same every computer is using anyway. Due to maintaining better and competitive value to customers and sale they do use generic devices, but, unlike your off the shelf CD drive, they do make tests and comparisons and often even slight modification to minimize Jitter and to guarantee signal effectiveness.
4) REALITY
Many of you have seen that only few years old CDR becomes unreadable due to high tolerance of recording and materials of media. Sure, if neglected same could be said about pro as well, but far less when speaking about industry statistics. Consumer media since 2000’s has calculated life expectancy (most of brands)
Does this say that consumer CD’s and press is bad? NO !!!
Remember, if you use data transfer of files use all the speed you have. BUT If you are recording audio CD’s or your own latest masterpiece, never record higher then 4 speed, Audiophiles never had problems with understanding this, but most of average users
doesn’t know this. If you want as close as possible - use 1 speed. Invite your audiophile friend or anyone who has "trained" ears to listen 1-4 recorded CD’s and those with 24-up, you will
understand then why. Yes, record classical piece for this demonstration.
If nature of this audio recording is not relevant to your ears or (if you think) to you producer,then use all the speed you have. If you honestly hear no difference in delicate timbre, forget all I wrote here and carry on with your creativity.
If you want reliable consumer media stick with those who are actually making the same.
TDK and Ricoh are in my experience most reliable, truth a bit more expensive but most durable media if properly used and archived.
So let me make one last analogy, some DTP & Pro people can’t stand LCD regardless of caliber or maker, to them same color on screen has to be same color on paper, and no LCD calibration is
ever going to be capable of that. To other users that means nothing and they are quite happy with their own LCD’s.
Professional camera 3CCD’s have almost military/hospital tolerance while your consumer camera is 50% more tolerant due to the nature of use and results.
At your home burning a few damaged CD’s is not a problem and hardly any expense. Try to add this "few" in industrial factory plant scheme and then you’ll understand why that is not acceptable in such environment, where time is money and money is time.
So, as always it is all up to your own set of references and preferences and ability in this case to actually value them with your own ears and sometimes remains of your pocket.
I Hope I’ve explained this matter in simple as possible fashion.
There are many things most of you are taking for granted.
However, to understand the nature of this process and to answer this question I have to get little technical - not to much.
Let me explain from the start why you wouldn’t benefit industrial blank disc in your PC/Mac drive and why pro pressing is more reliable then home made:
1) JITTER
When digital signal output (CD/DAT…) is not matched with phase and frequency while being recorded to say, Hard drive or CDR, then we speak about Jitter and supporting distortion, one very, very evident in timbre of acoustical instruments on higher frequencies.
First of all, you have to face the truth that computer CD drives are designed to transfer data source and not audio files.
Mechanics and mostly servo motors used in computer CD drives have far greater tolerance then even better home CD player, I wont even speak about dedicated pro write machines.
This forces fluctuation of rotation speed and moving head with laser beam
2) SYNCHRONIZATION
Problem with computer drives is also synchronization between output and input. This shouldn’t be of any concern - BUT - only if data transfer SPEED is not too big. However, as you all know computer/home drives are getting faster and faster, but for DATA,
not for AUDIO FILES,because servo motors are pushed even more while at same inferior quality compared to better CD players and pro writing devices.
3) INDUSTRIAL Laser heads
Industrial laser heads used in Pro machines have up to 30% more laser power then used in consumer ones.
When combined with Pro industrial blank CD’s they are more reliable, due to the nature of transfer and all mentioned above…, result is factory pressed CD, one you buy in CD stores.
The problem today…, many semi pro devices are making claims that they have pro units, when even average user can recognize just looking from outside that they are using generic computer CD drives,much the same every computer is using anyway. Due to maintaining better and competitive value to customers and sale they do use generic devices, but, unlike your off the shelf CD drive, they do make tests and comparisons and often even slight modification to minimize Jitter and to guarantee signal effectiveness.
4) REALITY
Many of you have seen that only few years old CDR becomes unreadable due to high tolerance of recording and materials of media. Sure, if neglected same could be said about pro as well, but far less when speaking about industry statistics. Consumer media since 2000’s has calculated life expectancy (most of brands)
Does this say that consumer CD’s and press is bad? NO !!!
Remember, if you use data transfer of files use all the speed you have. BUT If you are recording audio CD’s or your own latest masterpiece, never record higher then 4 speed, Audiophiles never had problems with understanding this, but most of average users
doesn’t know this. If you want as close as possible - use 1 speed. Invite your audiophile friend or anyone who has "trained" ears to listen 1-4 recorded CD’s and those with 24-up, you will
understand then why. Yes, record classical piece for this demonstration.
If nature of this audio recording is not relevant to your ears or (if you think) to you producer,then use all the speed you have. If you honestly hear no difference in delicate timbre, forget all I wrote here and carry on with your creativity.
If you want reliable consumer media stick with those who are actually making the same.
TDK and Ricoh are in my experience most reliable, truth a bit more expensive but most durable media if properly used and archived.
So let me make one last analogy, some DTP & Pro people can’t stand LCD regardless of caliber or maker, to them same color on screen has to be same color on paper, and no LCD calibration is
ever going to be capable of that. To other users that means nothing and they are quite happy with their own LCD’s.
Professional camera 3CCD’s have almost military/hospital tolerance while your consumer camera is 50% more tolerant due to the nature of use and results.
At your home burning a few damaged CD’s is not a problem and hardly any expense. Try to add this "few" in industrial factory plant scheme and then you’ll understand why that is not acceptable in such environment, where time is money and money is time.
So, as always it is all up to your own set of references and preferences and ability in this case to actually value them with your own ears and sometimes remains of your pocket.
I Hope I’ve explained this matter in simple as possible fashion.
Last edited:
B
Bulls Hit
Well-known member
Blue Bear Sound said:Your punishment is to be forced to endure tracking a bad singer in a poor-sounding room, using a radio shack mic thru a Rolls or Behringer pre for a period of no less than 12 hours.......
That sounds just like my place.
Except that my wife would never let me stay in there for 12 hours
D
ds21
New member
It should also be mentioned that there can/are differences in the the disk quality from the same manufacturer, as a generalization looking at where the disks are made makes a difference, the preferable one being one's made in Japan as opposed to the one's made in Taiwan.
Some of the best being made by:
Taiyo Yuden
these can be sold under various names: do a search for them and you come up with lots of sites that sell them.
P.S. I use a Yamaha F1 burner, which you can go into "mastering mode" which is limited to 8X speed, but, actualy lengthens the "pits" (so it will also shorten the actualy amount of data you can burn on a disc) to reduce Jutter and increase compatability with older players.
Some of the best being made by:
Taiyo Yuden
these can be sold under various names: do a search for them and you come up with lots of sites that sell them.
P.S. I use a Yamaha F1 burner, which you can go into "mastering mode" which is limited to 8X speed, but, actualy lengthens the "pits" (so it will also shorten the actualy amount of data you can burn on a disc) to reduce Jutter and increase compatability with older players.
Anthony
8-bit gen. (Volken)
Point well taken ds21,
But I wanted to postpone going in too much detail as it is.
Indeed, many Brand names use re-badged media from source like Taiyo Yuden and I could add with TDK, Ricoh also 3M ones.
But I wanted to postpone going in too much detail as it is.
Indeed, many Brand names use re-badged media from source like Taiyo Yuden and I could add with TDK, Ricoh also 3M ones.