Can Sonar do this?

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sondriven

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I posted this in the Cool Edit Forum, but also wanted to know if SOnar can do this.

Im using Cool Edit 2.0 and when Im doing vocals I like to hear delay as Im singing.

I put delay on almost all of my vocals if not a lot then a little, so Its really wierd when I dont have any.

So is it possible to get an effect processing as you record in CEP?

Thanks.

John
 
John,

Yes, Sonar can play effects as you record. But for this to work you need a computer that is pretty fast. Otherwise there'll be a delay before you hear the effect. If the effect you want is delay then maybe it doesn't matter. And if your computer is fast enough to do that in CEP, then it's probably fast enough to do it with Sonar too. Assuming your sound card has WDM drivers.

--Ethan
 
YEah, CEP says it has realtime effects but its not working the way I thought it would. After you record something, you can then put an effect on it and then mess with it as it plays. But thats not my definition of realtime.

Or maybe im missing something. Is there a demo of Sonar for download?

Thanks
 
sondriver - The capability you are looking for is called Input Monitoring, and Sonar does have this ability. However, there is an issue called latency that effects the usability of this feature dramatically.

Simply put, latency is the amount of time that elapses between when you sing (or play) something, and when you hear the "processed" signal. Because the computer must take the incoming signal, apply the chosen effect on the fly and feed it back to the sound card, there is always somewhat of a delay when using input monitoring. If that delay is under 5ms, you generally won't notice it. However, if it is higher than 5ms, you will not be able to sing along with a pre-recorded track since your vocal will always seem to be *behind* the music (i.e., the delay that Ethan was referring to).

So what affects latency? First, you need a good sound card and (working) WDM drivers for it (read that, no SB Lives or Audigy's please). Next you need a pretty powerful CPU. Lastly, the amount of total tracks and the number of effects will also come into play. In other words, if you already have 15-20 tracks each with some FX, and you are trying to play those and record your vocal using input monitoring - well, fuhgadaboudit.

In my personal (and occasionally humble) opinion, Input Monitoring is an idea that is not yet ready for Prime Time. By that, I mean *most* people can not use it on their systems in the manner they want to.

I know I'll get lots of arguments that "it's working fine for me." However, in most of those cases, the users have state of the art CPU's, good sound cards, and even then, they turn off most of their prerecorded tracks to get it to work.

I can accept that it may be working OK for some, but for the general home recording hobbyist the hardware hasn't quite caught up with the software yet.
 
I know this isnt the right forum but can anyone recommend a decent external delay unit.
 
if you are only going to use the delay so that you can hear the delay while you are singing, then just a funky old alesis quadraverb or something like that.

if you aren't going to use it when mixing, then you don't need a lexicon or anything, but i'd get a box that does reverb and chorus as well as delay so you can "hear" the effected vocal while still recording dry.
 
How can I use an external delay while singing and have it record dry?
 
SD,

> How can I use an external delay while singing and have it record dry? <

I do this all the time. I have a Mackie 1202 with the preamp's direct (insert) output going to my sound card's input. I have a cheap reverb unit - you'd use an echo unit - connected to the Mackie's Aux buss. I monitor through the Mackie using the reverb, and no matter what I do in the monitor path, the recording is dry.

--Ethan
 
I need a little help here. I have a Behringer MX802A it has the Aux effects busses. Can you be more specific on how to monitor the effect only. THanks

j
 
Just an example, it may not apply to you....
I run a mic into my joe meek preamp which has two outputs
output one goes direct to the computer dry(no effects)
output two gets ran through a processor thats set to 100% wet (effect only no dry signal) this signal is monitored not recorded
use the level control to adjust the mix.

If you choose sonar because you want to use input monitoring you will need windows 2000 or XP and a beefy system,as you add tracks and plugins the ability to use this function will be compromised,there are ways around this but the aforementioned method would be preferable.

GOOD LUCK!

BTW I'm getting 8ms latency and I find that acceptable,when I set the effect I set it pure wet on a aux send so I don't get a delay on the main(dry) signal.
 
SD,

> Can you be more specific on how to monitor the effect only. <

The key is to send the mike preamp's output directly to the sound card's input, without interrupting the preamp's normal mixer routing. This way whatever you do in the mixer itself with EQ and aux sends does not affect the sound being recorded. You do not send the mixer's main output to the sound card.

I'm not familiar enough with Behringer mixers to know their features, but to set it up as I describe requires that the mixer has a direct out or preamp insert jack. My Mackie 1202 has an insert jack, so I plug a 1/4-inch plug partway into that jack and the other end of the cord goes to my sound card's input. This sends the mike directly to the sound card, before any effects are added in the mixer via the aux buss.

--Ethan
 
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