Can nonsense be meaningful or is it just filler?

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mellotron

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How important do you think a song's meaning really is? A lot of people call Pavement and Beck nonsense lyricists, but I'd say there is a sizable amount of really meaningful stuff scattered throughout each song. Maybe it's like how some people say they can only write a verse and chorus and find nothing else to say, only Pavement and Beck scatter meaningful phrases throughout and fill it in with interesting-sounding lyrical tangents that contribute to the mood.

Or can you argue that at some subconscious level there's always some deep reason certain words were chosen, even if they're random?
 
absolutely. Nonsense can be just as meaningful. The big catch... nonsense takes A LOT more effort to make as meaningful... but when pulled off right, can be pretty powerful (since anyone can take any interpretation they want from it)

The sounds of words are arguably more important than the actual words themselves. There are a lot of writers (yes the ones you mentioned, included) who write songs first by throwing out vocal sounds until there's a really nice vocal and syllabic rhythm, and then taking whatever meaning they want to give the song and figuring out how to tell that story in the strict confines of the rhythm, vocal sounds, patterns, etc...

But really...a goiod song that means something to you will most likely mean something to someone else.... of number one importance of WHATEVER you make is...make it real... sing it like you mean it (like you're having a conversation...strictly one on one with the listener)... Filler is what you make it... if you view it as filler, chances are, the listener will too... treat even the nonsensical and silly elements just as seriously as your most serious song and you'll be on the right track.
 
Most people admit to caring little about the lyric of their fav songs so on that level nonsense can be good enough.
There's also deliberate nonsense and tweeness as in much of Jonathon Richman's late 70's and onward output.
Abdul Loves Cleopatra, Ice-cream Man, Hey There Little Insect whilst possibly D&M for Johno are nonsense to many & I like it like that.
Tootie Fruity, apart from the sexual context, was fairly nonsensical.
Aga Doo, Dancing Queen, Da Da Da and the list is endless.
 
TerraMortim said:
absolutely. Nonsense can be just as meaningful. The big catch... nonsense takes A LOT more effort to make as meaningful... but when pulled off right, can be pretty powerful (since anyone can take any interpretation they want from it)
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Well said. :)
 
'Jai guru deva om
Nothing's gonna change my world..'

It was just the sound of it IIRC. :)
 
sound-scape painting
Jon Anderson was very good at that!

Bardo
 
i don't think it would be called nonsense if it had meaning.
 
...

Duran Duran achieved considerable success early using largely "half nonsense" lyrics, as critics put it.

I liked some of the songs. "Hold back the rain" comes to mind.

use it, what can it hurt? try it...
 
Haha, yeah, I guess my topic didn't really make sense. It's just that I have trouble figuring out Pavement songs...and wondering if Stephen Malkmus really knows why he chose the words he did or if it was just random neurons firing in the brain. I think I'm overcritical if the words don't make sense, when making music is partly chance/madness and partly method, with the madness being equally as important.
 
Many of my favourite songs, I don't even know the lyrics to. I think that music depends not on what is being said, but how it's being said. For example, the first time I heard Black by Pearl Jam, I thought it was just a beautifully melancholic song, and the lyrics had nothing to do with it (I couldn't understand them anyway, like most Pearl Jam).

So, I think that nonsense can be very effective in the right application. If the song can stand on it's own without any kind of lyrical meaning, it may even help it by not cluttering the song.
 
I like a lot of songs which I mostly don't understand what the song is really about. I would like to think that I am a more sophisticated listener, but it often come down to if the song hits me in the gut or not. I think in my case I tune-in to just one line of the song and take that to heart as to what the song means to me.

REM is a group that comes to mind (and I'm thinking of the era of "Losing My Religion" and "Man on the Moon")...I once heard a radio soundbite about fans trying to disect the lyrics to their songs and REM was saying (in so many words) that many of their lyrics were not deep and logical, the fans search for some intended message (from REM) in every word/line would yield nothing.

In another bit I heard or read Paul Simon said (my take at least) that he liked to begin his songs with a solid picture based in reality (like traveling with his son to Graceland), after the instroduction line(s) He would be free to explore more "fantastical" ways of looking at things.
 
After reviewing all the Monster Magnet lyrics I can find, I can say without a doubt that your lyrics can be random words, and still sell millions of records.
 
mawtangent said:
REM is a group that comes to mind (and I'm thinking of the era of "Losing My Religion" and "Man on the Moon")...I once heard a radio soundbite about fans trying to disect the lyrics to their songs and REM was saying (in so many words) that many of their lyrics were not deep and logical, the fans search for some intended message (from REM) in every word/line would yield nothing. .
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if ya ver get a chance to see the bbc documentery seven ages of rock you'll find micheal stipes disagrees with you.... although he never really wanted to be known as a political/socially contious band...
 
ha ha...

When lyrics are "suitably vague" everyone feels free to make their own up.

some pearl jam (black?) lyrics I always sing wrong, is

"and we tattooed everything" ??

Jeremy's chokin/smokin/spoken/for last days??

I used to like "L-O-L-A Lola", until someone told me the lyrics. I didnt believe them. I looked it up *ugh*

pity, the melody is a real "toe tapper", too, ha ha

and... i aint all about pretending i know exactly WHAT james brown sings sometimes, but i seem to like it... lol
 
Nonsense rocks. It gets you out of forced rhymes. Sort of. I mean termites choaking on a splinter............How beautiful is that?
 
if not suitably vague where would we get things like..."there's a bathroom on the right...."
 
The way I look at it is if you make a song, and you have complete satisfaction with it and actually enjoy listening to it, then you have achieved success. What other people think, and whether it will make any money is next, but it's not the most important thing.

Songs are about expressing yourself. You write it and enjoy it.

I have songs I made (most of them) that I cannot stand to listen to. They suck, plain and simple (and my wife agrees).

There are a couple tunes I've made that I like and actually listen to. I don't care if someone else likes them. They bring me satisfaction.

I'm at the point where I don't really care what others think, because I am unsatisfied with my ability as a songwriter. Like I said, I have a couple songs I wrote that I like, but most just suck.

So, before I present a lot of work to others I want to enjoy my work. I still haven't found what I'm looking for in my style of song.

I'm starting to get away from technology and back into just me and my guitar in the bedroom, strumming and singing.

I picture myself a cross between Dave Matthews, Jack Johnson, Led Zepplin (barely, but a little on the guitar chords--not vocally or lead guitar).

This audio image I have of myself has never come out of me. The songs I've recorded are NOT me yet. That may sound strange, but it's true.

Now THAT is nonsense.
 
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