Can I get a good demo out of my equipment?

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MeanMrMustard

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Hey All,

I just found this website and I think it's really cool and interesting.

I want to record my whole band to make a decent demo. We are a four member band (guitar,bass,drum,vocal), and play heavy rock.
My Question is how can I get the best results using the equipment I have available to me, which is...

12 channel sound board,
four track recorder,
several mics


In the past we have recorded the bass and drum tracks first. We seperated the 2 insturments as much as possible , trying to keep the two on seperate tracks.
After the bass and drums were recorded I would lay the guitar on the third track going directly into the four track.

What should I do next?

I still have to record the vocals but I would like to have a few more tracks left over to add in other things.

Also, is it possible to get a four track recording and somehow get it burnt on to cd. I have access to a cd burner.


Thanks for reading this any thoughts would be greatly apprieciated.
 
Mix your bass, drum and guitar until you like the way they sound, then bounce them all onto your fourth track - if your 4-track has this facility. If it doesn't you're stuck with four tracks, pretty much. With your bass, drums and guitar all on track four, you can now re-use tracks one, two and three, giving you six tracks in all. The manual for the 4-track should explain about bouncing. If it doesn't the machine probably can't do it.

I've made CDs going from a 4-track to a computer. Very easy: line-out to soundcard inputs. I've not used a standalone CD burner of the type I'm guessing you have, but maybe you just do the same: line-outs to line-ins?
 
if you're wanting more tracks than just four (from your 4track), look up the procedure called "bouncing" tracks. there ought to have already been plenty mention of it here, just use the search feature to find it. that'll give you the few extra tracks you need.
when you mix down from your 4track, run outputs to the input on your cd burner.
kind of a simple answer, but does it help?
 
... i guess i was just repeating what atwork said. i thought all 4tracks could bounce, though....
hey if it doesn't, and you're stuck with just 4tracks, mix em down to cd, then run the cd through your mixer to the four track. that's what bouncing tracks is anyway.

example: scream into a microphone for 45 minutes. record three more tracks. mix down to cd. then play cd through mixer onto 4track, after filtering it with delay and distortion. layer on three more tracks. mix down again. repeat this over and over, adding delay and a different secondary effect each time.

i don't know what this has to do with your question, but i'd like to hear it. all 45 minutes.
 
The correct answer is "Can you?" It's up to you, not us, whether you get a good demo out of something.
 
Ok when bouncing everything to the fourth track should I also lay the vocals at the same time on to the fourth track, or should i wait and give the vocals its own track?

Also it seems when I bounce everything to the fourth track the sound quality diminishes greatly.
 
You might want to try recording all the rhythm instruments (drums, bass, rhythm guitar) together onto 2 tracks for stereo. You could use 2-4 mics for the drums, 1 mic or line in for bass, and one mic or line in for guitar. On most TASCAM units you can record up to 6 inputs at once and assign which tracks to record them to. You would have a stereo- 2 track, L and R -mix of the rhythm section. You can adjust the pans and eq of each input, and you would have to mix these as you record, cuz once they're on tape, you can't change it. You then have 2 remaining tracks for vocals, leads. If you record all the rhythm instruments separate and then bounce them to one track, you will loose stereo and some sound quaility. The way I suggest keeps everything stereo and no bouncing.
 
another thing you can do...and you kinda alluded to it...when bouncing...and that is to add another live track to the "bounced" track, when you are bouncing. But instead of adding a vocal (as you suggested....maybe make it a less important track). My feelings are to record the less dominant tracks of the song, then bounce those while adding a forth track "live" at the same time. Now you have three open tracks(to record over) with 4 "mixed" tracks on a single track. Some machines will also allow you to bounce with the remaining 3 tracks (record two tracks, and bounce to the last open track...and of course add another live one at the same time). You now have 7 performances..but albeit 2nd generation, which you noticed sounds worse than 1st generation. Welcome to the world of analog. Keep levels *correct* and HOT, and a calibrated machine helps too!! Doing the math, you can end up with 10 tracks on a 4 track machine, with 6 tracks being 2nd generation and 4 tracks being 1st generation...you have to add a 1st generation track when bouncing...and of course your very last track will be a 1st generation too. On cassette multitrackers, bouncing can really suck. Decent reel to reels, you can get away with some amazing stuff. A 1/2" 4 track or a 1" 8 track machine can yield some pretty impressive results, even with bouncing.
 
oh yeah...when bouncing tracks more than once on a machine, but keeping in sync to existing tracks, you'll have playback the desired tracks to be bounced from the record head (or sync head), to keep all tracks all lined up nice and neat. If you don't understand this, it is probably more confusing than I can explain....not to mention, the record head playback generally is worse sounding than using the playback head..for playback purposes.......right?...huh? ahh?? need beer... !!...trust me!!
 
and yet...get ready for some feedback when you bounce from the record head to an adjacent track on the tape!!...levels will have to be less than optimum to make it happen.
 
Wow, thanks for all the info.
You've given me somegood things to contemplate.

Another Question for anyone who cares to answer,

What noise reduction should I use? I have a switch that has 3 settings, Off, On, DBX. Which would give the best results. So far I have used DBX when recording but switched to off when mixing down the final product.

Also how should I set the pan controls when recording the drums and bass. So far I usually pan the drums to the left on track 1, and the bass to the right on track 2. Should I pan them both up the middle?

Thanks for all the great info!!!

Love, Peace and Chicken Grease
 
the rule with noise reduction - I read somewhere - is if you record with it on, mix down with it on. If you record with it on then mix down with it off the end results won't be as good.

Bass and drums are usually panned centre, more or less.
 
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Here is another idea. How good is your band? If they can do a great take of a song all the way through, get them live. Here is what I would do:

Mic your guitar, singer, drum kit (two overheads + 1 snare) and send them into your mixing board. Set the levels and panning the way you want it. I'd personally do overheads hard left/right, vocals center, snare a little bit off to one side (listen to the snare's placement in the overheads to find the side), and guitar slightly off to the other side. Once you are all mixed, panned, and eq'd, send that sterio mix out to 2 tracks of your recorder. Next, send a direct feed from the bass guitar to the third track of the recorder and mic the bass drum and send it to the 4th track of the recorder. Play it all live and get it all in one shot. Mix the bass guitar and bass drum properly afterwards.

This is how I would personally do it. The only reason I give the bass guitar and bass drum their own personal tracks is because I find them the hardest two instruments to get right on a live mix. If you can get them in a live mix, throw them into the mixing board as well and save yourself 2 tracks for overdubs.
 
Hmmm...
Good advice, but I'd go drum mix/bass mixed to 1/2...
Guitar on 3
and vox on 4...
 
I gather you own a computer You are here arent you. Get a good soundcard and any program out ther will make a better demo than a cassete Multitrack. Bouncing tracks on a four track isnt going to cut it, what goes for a good demo these days is different than it was in 1983.
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I gather you own a computer You are here arent you. Get a good soundcard and any program out ther will make a better demo than a cassete Multitrack. Bouncing tracks on a four track isnt going to cut it, what goes for a good demo these days is different than it was in 1983.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking.

If the PC is yours
Get a 4 (Or more) Channel Soundcard and decent software, and be able to record a CD!

Hell, from what I've heard, N-Track is pretty damned good for $45 bucks.


I'm seriously thinking about it myself.

I have a 16-track set up on Tascam DA-38's, and those are going to wind up as a "mobile" unit.

Tim
 
Bouncing Tracks

When bouncing tracks on digital recorders does the quality diminish or not? If you have a yamaha multitrack recorder and mix down to a CD and then get that Mastered. With all those passes through cables and different equipment and formats does the quality diminish? I can hear a difference from playing the song off the oriiginal Mini-disk on the Yamaha and the final mix down. The Mini Disc sounds better? Does it diminish or not?

Also someone on this post said to mix 4 tracks on to a CD and then back on to one track and opening more tracks on your 4 track. I have done this in the past and definetly hear the quality diminish. If everything is digital why does the sound thin out?
 
N Track

This N Track thing sounds awesome. Can it do everything or do you need other equipment? Is it better than digitla multitrack recorders? Thanks for the Info.
 
Re: N Track

Device357 said:

When bouncing tracks on digital recorders does the quality diminish or not? If you have a yamaha multitrack recorder and mix down to a CD and then get that Mastered. With all those passes through cables and different equipment and formats does the quality diminish? I can hear a difference from playing the song off the oriiginal Mini-disk on the Yamaha and the final mix down. The Mini Disc sounds better? Does it diminish or not?

As long as you stay in the digital Realm it should NOT, diminish-however, if at any point in the signal chain the signal gets converted to analog, then yes-there will be some loss of quality.
So, if you can put an outboard effect unit on it that is connected with standard 1/4" Jacks, it's been converted to analog.


Also someone on this post said to mix 4 tracks on to a CD and then back on to one track and opening more tracks on your 4 track. I have done this in the past and definetly hear the quality diminish. If everything is digital why does the sound thin out?

Again, if you are converting to analog, tyhere's going to be some loss.
You also may not have burned your CD hot enough.


This N Track thing sounds awesome. Can it do everything or do you need other equipment? Is it better than digitla multitrack recorders? Thanks for the Info.
Click to expand...

Ntrack is a Multitrack software for a computer. It does basic multitrack recording and Mixing, and I think they sell additions/upgrades (like various effects) at a minimal cost.

http://ntrack.com/

You would obviously need a decent means of getting your signals into the PC (I wouldn't expect any miracles with a standard soundcard)
You also have think in terms of "bi-directional" recording, because you need to be able to monitor that signal as well.
I'm fairly sure that most Soundcards are bi-directional these days, but I would check just to be sure.

I intend to use a pair of TDIF cards to get in and out of the PC (They are Tascam Digital Interfaces, which connect to the TMD1000 Digital Mixer, or will connect to the DA-38/78/88/98 Digital Recorders. Each TDIF allows you 8 inputs or outputs in the TDIF format for the computer.
 
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