Can flat monitors really help?

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Sabin333

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Hi. So I'm a longtime lurker of this forum. I finally had to post because I'm wondering:

I know flat monitors help if you use hem all the time and know what they sound like. But if you're someone like me who (sadly) has a day job and is listening to music at work on headphones, then how accustomed to the monitors can you get.

For instance, I listen to 90% of my music in my cubicle on cheap earbuds. So when I come home to mix, I really don't know if the bass that's coming out of my monitors is appropriate or not. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? Any solutions?
 
I think of it as a baseline - if it sounds good on the monitors, then it will likely sound good on most anything else. They also help to bring out details due to their higher clarity/resolution/imaging. I usually find a few things with the monitors that need correction that I didn't hear on my (good) headphones.
 
And how does it sound on crap earbuds? At the moment my mixes sound great on my monitors, but thin as an MP3 from my phone, bass heavy in my car mid-heavy on my home system. They need some work. The best monitors in the world won't make your mixes translate to other systems. You kind of answered your own question- you don't know if your mix is appropriate or not. That means trying different mixes until you get one that sounds good on whatever you listen through. You'll never get one that sounds the same through give away earbuds as a pair of audiophile speakers. Too late for a short answer, but here it is: learn your monitors.
 
Thanks for the input gents! :)

So I think I'll continue to seek out good flat monitors (and the time to practice on them), but in the meantime maybe I'll try to find some headphones/earbuds that are flat for home and the cubicle. That way I have something I can "learn" while working. Cause I sure as he'll can't have speakers in my cubicle haha.
 
I wonder how tired your ears might be when you finally get to mixing-- ;)
 
Bit tricky in this day and age I know but,...
try to listen to some "real" live music played by top musicians. This really means "classical" concerts, acoustic (mainly) jazz and big bands.
Remember, all these musical sources had to sound well balanced BEFORE recording was ever possible or at least in its infancy and once recording started the musicians were chosen for their ability to "hit it" bang on every time, master discs were bloody expensive!

Dave.
 
mixsit said:
I wonder how tired your ears might be when you finally get to mixing-- ;)
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A very good point. Hearing is not like physical exercise. An energetic job makes you MORE energetic for footy (say) later, within reason. Ears get dulled within an hour or so and if the levels are anywhere near 90dB you are probably suffering a Temporary Threshold Shift (Google it) and quite possibly on the road to damage.

Dave.
 
Sabin333 said:
Hi. So I'm a longtime lurker of this forum. I finally had to post because I'm wondering:

I know flat monitors help if you use hem all the time and know what they sound like. But if you're someone like me who (sadly) has a day job and is listening to music at work on headphones, then how accustomed to the monitors can you get.

For instance, I listen to 90% of my music in my cubicle on cheap earbuds. So when I come home to mix, I really don't know if the bass that's coming out of my monitors is appropriate or not. Anyone else know what I'm talking about? Any solutions?
Click to expand...

Flat is not the biggest issue man. A small untreated room acoustics will destroy what a $25,000 pair of monitors will tell you. Any decent monitors in a well treated room will make things way easier to hear properly. You can mix on crappy monitors in a crappy room, but be prepared to learn how they are translating to other systems. A shitty sounding room will lie to you, no matter how good your monitors are.

You can mix on headphones but be prepared to find things are wrong on other systems or headphones with your mix. It is just the way it is. Many get away with this to a degree, but I can't even think of one mix I ever heard that was done on headphones alone, that did not need some major overhaul. Not on this forum anyway. Sure it has never been accomplished alone ever. And why would it?

IMO, you will likely never be able to get a good mix with headphones, without the experience and use of mixing in a good room and how that translates to a pair of headphones that you know well. I sure the hell can't, and I have quite good of both.

Not trying to be a dick, but there is a reason that people spend money on studios. It is because headphones and bedrooms do not lend themselves to proper listening environments.

There is no solution, but there are ways to make the room you mix in 'lie' to you less. 'Acoustic treatment'. Not even that expensive, depending upon where you live and how handy you are.

Look into Google of that first. I did. Best investment I ever made.
 
jimmys69 said:
You can mix on headphones but be prepared to find things are wrong on other systems or headphones with your mix.
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Good advice all around. FYI- I'm not looking to complete the mix. My goal would be just to use headphones as a reference since they are the only equipment I'll ever have the time to "learn." You have to find some kind of "truthy" sound to compare everything to right?
 
Sabin333 said:
Thanks for the input gents! :)

So I think I'll continue to seek out good flat monitors (and the time to practice on them), but in the meantime maybe I'll try to find some headphones/earbuds that are flat for home and the cubicle. That way I have something I can "learn" while working. Cause I sure as he'll can't have speakers in my cubicle haha.
Click to expand...
Won't happen -- The "flattest" cans in the world will completely change over the course of a cup of coffee or a 1mm shift on your head. A haircut can change the low end response to something unrecognizable.

The whole point of a solid monitoring chain and proper room treatment is accuracy and consistency. And the whole advantage of actually being able to hear phase anomalies and what not certainly helps...

That all said, if you gotta go, go Grado. They're certainly not going to take the place of a good chain in a good room, but as far as headphones go, you can do so much worse that a decent set of Grados...
 
I just got monitors and I was always skeptical - I can honestly say I find it easier to mix as it's a lot clearer now and when I then play the tracks on say my phone, I've noticed everything is a lot more balanced. I've also noticed little things in songs I've never heard before like extra harmonies etc

I also use them for general music listening and for some reason certain artists seem to sound a lot better on them - for some reason Leonard Cohen sounds superb through them, however on everything else it tends to sound a bit muddy.


My 2 cents. A half decent pair of monitors is not too expensive - got mine for £100.
 
bongoboy said:
And how does it sound on crap earbuds? At the moment my mixes sound great on my monitors, but thin as an MP3 from my phone, bass heavy in my car mid-heavy on my home system. They need some work. The best monitors in the world won't make your mixes translate to other systems. You kind of answered your own question- you don't know if your mix is appropriate or not. That means trying different mixes until you get one that sounds good on whatever you listen through. You'll never get one that sounds the same through give away earbuds as a pair of audiophile speakers. Too late for a short answer, but here it is: learn your monitors.
Click to expand...

Mixing for me used to be the same PIA that you describe. I would creat a mix, and then play it on my home system, car system, and garage system (I may be the only person that has B&W LM1's in the garage), taking mix notes on each playback system. Then makes the changes I noted, and then start the process all over again. Ususally about 6-7 mixes, before it was good on all playbacks.

But that was before I got my Dynaudio monitors. With these the mix sounds correct on all 3 playback systems, on the first mix.
 
I've also found that listening to a diverse collection of professionally recorded music through my monitors as well as all my other environments has helped me learn the "sound" of each so I can better attribute what I hearing to my recording techniques or the sound of the room.
 
Whale Bone said:
I've also found that listening to a diverse collection of professionally recorded music through my monitors as well as all my other environments has helped me learn the "sound" of each so I can better attribute what I hearing to my recording techniques or the sound of the room.
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That's a great point. I like to begin a new mixing session with an ear tuning session where I listen to a short variety of very well recorded music. Usually some Steelly Dan. This helps train my brain to think of placements and levels of the instruments.
 
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Muddy T-Bone said:
That's a great point. I like to begin a new mixing session with an ear tuning session where I listen to a short variety of very well recorded music. Usually some Steelly Dan. This helps train my brain to think of placements and levels of the instruments.
Click to expand...

What he said, only I use Lincoln Brewster or something similar. Suppose it depends on the project your are working.
 
What would the response of monitors be pray if they were not "flat"? It is a prime requirement of a reproducing chain that certain parameters are help to as close tolerances as possible.

Noise is kept to it lowest practical level.
Distortion too is held very low.
The frequency response of an audio interface will be flat from ~10Hz to around 21kHz (at 44.1kHz sample rate) within the dB equivalent of a gnat's undercarrige.
(those strange analogue only boys also have to worry about wow and flutter. SO glad I don't!)

Why then would we want monitor speakers to put out anything but a response as flat as is possible?
Of course, no room (that you would want to work in!) is "flat" but all that means is that it is even more vital that the rest of the system is a reference.

Many monitors of course have response "tweaking" switches on their backs. I wonder sometimes if they are really doing the noob any big favours? My Tannoys have no such fidderables and I am happy to be without!

Dave.
 
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