Cable Static

[Chucko]

Listen to Skippy

epnotrem said:

Monster cable is rated to be one of the top of the line, cable manufacturs known.

No, Monster Cable is actually one of the most deceptive marketers known.

Skippy's right about Monster. While they do produce a decent product, it's not significantly better than anyone else's, and they're one step above the "green markers for better CD sound" marketers. Their packaging is loaded with feel-good BS about how their cable will make your guitar sound, not technical information like % of shield coverage, capacitance per foot, etc., which is what I'd want to see before I bought a cable from anyone.

This is not to disparage those people who like a more rolled-off guitar tone, and who buy the Monster Jazz cables for that purpose. If it gets you the sound you want, and you're willing to pay Monster prices, great! But me, I like all the treble I can get, so I want the lowest capacitance cable I can find.

I'm tempted to take my DMM to the music store the next time I need to buy a cable, so I can measure the capacitance on the spot, and pick the one with the lowest pf/foot. Think the bozos at Guitar Center would let me get away with it? Think they'd have a clue why I was doing it??

There are cables out there with a conductive layer on the inner insulation to bleed away the triboelectric charge that causes handling noise. I can't think of any particular manufacturers offhand, but it's a well-known phenomenon with an existing solution.

Hey skippy, old buddy, if you need to get rid of some excess hi-Z instrument cable, you know where I live... how much per foot??

 

[John Weigel]

Chucko, I think you're correct Before I bow out of this thread (superior knowledge makes me cranky) I have to say that in the 10 years since I bought my "monster" I have noticed that, almost alone among cable sellers, Monster does not list specs, not even gauges! I like to use large gauge speaker cables for everything and found that Monster would tell me all the wonderful things they would do for my sound, but nothing that would allow me to make an informed purchase. That said, I am happy with the monster I have, but for the last 4-5 years I have played Dobro through a mic almost exclusively, saving the monster for occasional recreational Les Paulage.
John

 

[pchorman]

Skippy: same here. Throw me a dozen feet or so of that low-cap Belden and I'll gladly pay twice it's value, since you buy it in bulk and probably at a good price. The plug tips are the same among the different cables tried, so I hope the contacts are mating consistently. I have had great success cleaning these up with chrome or metal polish, by the way. Over the years I've actually decreased the plug diameter slighty with all the cleanings and metal layers removed. What do you use?

John and Chucko: I agree we're dealing with clever marketing deceptiveness. As for Monster's ploy in claiming to provide cable that's custom tailored for particular playing styles, the best cable is the one which transfers the signal and does not alter it in any way. The ideal (but impractical) case is not having a cable! The last thing I want altering my guitar tone is the interconnecting wire. Amp and instrument tone controls should do that.

By the way, what kind of DMM let's you measure characteristic cable impedance? Haven't seen one that reads anything more than voltage, current and DC resistance.

So skippy, any remnants?

 

[Chucko]

pchorman said:

As for Monster's ploy in claiming to provide cable that's custom tailored for particular playing styles, the best cable is the one which transfers the signal and does not alter it in any way.

While I would agree, for my usual style of playing, this may not be true for everyone in every situation. That's why I made the comment about the Jazz cable; someone may actually want that particular sound. Remember, we're talking about artists here, not engineers! If a player feels that a particular designer cable is the best way to get his preferred tone, I won't argue with that.

Of course, a clever musician/engineer would realize he could get the same sound with a cheaper cable and a 5 cent capacitor across the amp's input jack.

For a more personal example, I have a guitar with humbuckers and onboard passive/active electronics. In active mode, there is effectively zero load capacitance on the pickup (OK, maybe 20 pF or so, but it's swamped by the pickup's internal capacitance) -- and the result is a very sterile tone, great for clean work, but not for getting down 'n' dirty. For "crunch" rhythm and distorted lead with this axe, I find I prefer the passive mode. The pickups sound very sweet driving the cable's 1000 pF (measured) load. I'm thinking about adding a small cap at the front end of the onboard preamp for this reason.

But this exception aside, for me, the less the cable load rolls off the highs on my guitar, the better.

Then pchorman asked:

By the way, what kind of DMM let's you measure characteristic cable impedance?

For hi-Z instrument cables of reasonable length, IMHO the only relevant impedance measurement is capacitance. Series resistance of any reasonable (and intact) center conductor is going to be irrelevant because of the high source and load Z, and any cable with measurable conductivity from tip to sleeve will get thrown out in "short" order (pun intended). Cable inductance will be dominated by the guitar pickup's own inductance.

A moderately expensive DMM, unfortunately, is required to read capacitance in the pF range with any degree of accuracy. I tried out several models and brands at Fry's Electronics (California chain) before settling on a $300 Tektronix model.

 

[recorder]

i'd like a instrument cable too! I did think the studio pro 1000 was very impressive in my test but damn 100 bucks! for a cable. It's very hard to try and justify that but if there is no other cable that is convincing me...i might have to.

i'd definitely be interested in some cable that is silent and pure as long as it's cheaper than the monster.