Cab to pair with Sansamp

  • Thread starter Thread starter anonymous_vkfan
  • Start date Start date
A

anonymous_vkfan

New member
Hello all. I'm laying something down at the moment. I've got the drums, electric and acoustic guitar finished to my liking, really pleased with how it's coming along. Now I lay down the bass, and it's just not what I'm looking for.

Could be a combination of things - the fact that I'm a guitar player and not a bass player, need to experiment with different strings, maybe try out felt picks, post-processing, etc. A few years back I spent a lot on an American Deluxe Jazz Bass thinking it would solve all my problems, but it has not. I've always recorded bass directly, and I think it's time I start blending mic'd bass cabs with the direct signal.

So I've been reading online for a few days, trying to find common methods and reading up on equipment. I have a Sansamp RBI (rackmount) and PSA 1.1. I'm hoping to pair these with a versatile, reliable bass cab. I'll end up getting an SM57 to record it, as that is mentioned often and could serve me well in other areas.

I'm looking for recommendations on a well-rounded bass cab to pair with my Sansamps. I hope to try some out before making a purchase, but if anyone could help me get a list of candidates going it would be appreciated. Strictly for recording purposes at this time, I'm not worried about gigs. My favorite bass lines are probably Ben Folds tracks, although I'm not always looking for the "big muff" distortion kind of sound. If I'm investing in this, it would be nice to find something versatile so that if I ever get a P bass and want more of that "thump" sound, it could pull that off.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions.
 
The Sansamp RBI and PSA 1.1 are both preamps. You can't just run them into a speaker cab you need to run them into a power amp first. How could you not know that? :confused:
 
Cuz I'm a newb :) . Thanks for pointing it out. I guess that complicates things for me then.
 
It doesn't complicate things if you're using a computer to record with.
You could set it up like so...
Bass > SansAmp > Interface > Computer
...and use an amp simulator software of some sort as a VST on the channel you're recording.
Disable/bypass the amp and any effects on the VST, but leave the cabinet active.

If you're using a standalone recorder, maybe you could run the preamp to a compressor then an EQ before the recorder input. I've done that in the past with decent results.
 
Thanks. I have a Delta 1010. I've always recorded bass -> SansAmp -> Interface. I can't recreate the sound I have in my head so I'm looking for alternatives.

I will try your VST amp sim suggestion. Amplitube 2 has some OK presets for bass. I don't think I've ever tried blending those presets with the direct signal, and I certainly wouldn't have thought to disable everything on the amp simulator but the cabs. I'll give this a shot and report back, thanks for the suggestion.
 
You say you've been recording direct. Could you elaborate a little more on your chain when doing that? Is it bass -> RBI -> interface? Are you using any amp sims in the software? Not really familiar will the Ben Folds sound. I can only think of one song, and from what I recall, I certainly wouldn't call it a 'big muff' sound. Seems more like it was an upright.

Sorry, I was responding while you were responding. Never mind.
 
The SansAmp is a cabinet emulator itself. Any cab you run it through will discolor the attempt to emulate some other cabinet (e.g., AC-30, tweed, etc.) So it would be best to use the most transparent amp and speakers possible rather than one that imparts its own color to the sound.
 
Cardio - no apology required. Song you're thinking of is probably "Brick", which was their single in the mid-90s. Ben Folds has since gone solo, enjoying a successful and acclaimed career as a songwriter. My best attempt at describing the bass he uses would be bright, punchy, jazzy, clear. Usually not the hard rock thump sound. Hope I'm using those terms accurately.

Diggy - Yes, if I end up needing an amp (in addition to speaker/cab), I'll probably want a solid state to pair with the sansamp. Or, if it makes more sense, maybe I get a tube amp and mix sansamp direct signal with mic'd tube amp.

Who has time to test all of these combinations :) . I just want to lay something down while it's fresh in my head and before I tire of it. There's no easy button for mixing I guess.
 
It takes time to figure out the best way to use your equipment. Unfortunately, there is no substitute.
Best of luck on finding what works.
 
The fuzz sound that you hear Robert Sledge playing on those albums is pretty simple to get. Probably just a fuzz pedal before the preamp should get that sound.
Sledge is a local. Before he joined Ben Folds Five, he ran a local group called Toxic Popsicle. That guy is actually a monster of a bass player.

Diggy is right. Don't over think it for now. Just get it out before you forget it.
 
I would think that the RBI would be able to get just the sound you described as wanting. I realize that it's hard to put these things into words, though. The real problem could possibly be on the other end, though. Perhaps what you're recording is exactly the sound you're looking for, but it just doesn't sound right on playback. Have you played the Ben Folds stuff back on what you're using for recording?
 
Had to break this into 2 replies so that I didn't get logged out. Hey, I type like I play. :o

Another thing to consider: Everybody always gets hung up on getting the perfect sound when they record the individual instrument, before it gets mixed in. This rarely works, unless it's an acoustic duo, or something like that. If you were to take the bass track of one of Ben's tunes, and be able to hear it by itself, you probably wouldn't be happy with that sound were it your track.

I don't know if I'm making myself clear or not, so tell me if I'm not making sense. I've got a nasty cold and I'm loaded up on NyQuil.
 
The recurring theme in this thread is this: The pros don't really have anything so special that you can't duplicate it with a few old pedals. I once nailed Robert Smith's "Fascination Street" tone with a cheap Samick Tele knockoff through a DOD flanger pedal into a Crate 2x10 white face combo.
 
jazz - That's cool about Sledge, good info. I read he used a "big muff" pedal, I may have to pick one up and feed it into the preamp. I usually use the pre as the first link in my chain, I don't think I've experimented too much with feeding effects into it. It would be a good learning experience.

Cardio - Point taken, I've heard the point about things sounding bad by themselves but sounding right for the mix. I'm at a point with a project at the moment where I've got electric, acoustic, and drums down, and I'm satisfied with them. Now I start the bass and it just isn't blending well. Right now I'm attributing that to the way I'm recording the bass. It could wind up that it has more to do with the way I've mixed the other stuff, but I'm focusing on the former for the moment.

Diggy - Good to know, gives me hope.

I hope to try out some things this weekend and I'll report back. Thanks for all the info thus far.
 
I imagine that with a little tinkering, you might be able to make it happen.
I've wondered how some of these overdrive pedals I have would work in that regard. maybe it's time to do some more experimenting. :)
 
I spent a good deal of time over the weekend trying to get the bass just right. Messed with knobs on the sansamp RBI, and also with the various knobs on the american deluxe bass. I even played around with using a CAB simulator and blending the direct signal with that of the cab simulator. I got a sound I'm happy with. Not necessarily the Ben Folds sound that I like so much, but one that fits well with the mix IMO.

I'm in the habit of using a reference track for compressing bass. One thing I've read about compression is that it's triggered more severely for low frequencies than high frequencies. So, when compressing a low frequency signal like bass, the compressor has a tendency to take out more of the low end than the high end. To counter this, you can use a reference track and feed it into the side input of the compressor. The compressor on the bass is referencing an altered version of the bass track, one with a high shelving filter applied to cut off some of the low end so that the compressor doesn't kick in as much.

One thing I found with this particular mix is that the bass seemed too boomy around the 100hz mark. So, I altered the reference track to boost the signal around 100hz. This resulted in added compression around that frequency, and less boom. Sounds nice, first time I've done this.

When I get this finished I'll post a link here, I'd be interested in thoughts specifically about the bass and how it was mixed.
 
Why use a reference track? You can feed the original signal through an EQ into the compressor's sidechain just as easily. The compressor will track the actual signal it's working on, not another version of it.
 
OK, almost a year later, the project I was working on is as good as I'm going to get it. I'm happy with the way the bass turned out. Again, not necessarily the "big muff" sound, but it works for the mix - you can hear it but at the same time it isn't clashing with the other instruments. I ended up recording direct with the SansAmp RBI as opposed to the PSA. Just played around with the knobs until I found a setting I liked. I paired this with the reference track method I described earlier.

Bass comes in at 0:40. My favorite bass moments are at 1:25, 1:48, 3:02, 3:06. The bass sounds 'punchy' for lack of a better term.



Thanks to all who contributed to this thread.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top