Buzzing From Mac's Line Out

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Tizzo

Gunslinger
Hey all,

I have my line out of my Mac Pro going into a Behringer Eurorack MX602A (1/8" out to RCA in). I get a constant buzzing when I turn my main volume (on the mixer) up. This buzzing goes away when I remove the Mac from the equation. Any ideas why this would be happening?

Thanks
 
line out is stereo right?

and the behringer input is mono?


are you using a balanced cable?





just a guess here, but try using a splitter cable to supply the behringer with separate left and right
 
line out is stereo right?

and the behringer input is mono?


are you using a balanced cable?





just a guess here, but try using a splitter cable to supply the behringer with separate left and right

Using a cable with that is 1/8" male to L/R RCA male into the "tape in" input on the behringer.
 
ok,fair enough.....! lol



do you getin buzzing if you plug the line out into something else?


maybe plug in headphones or small speakers to test?
 
I would bet it's an earth loop via the audio cable between the computer and the eurorack, you may need to use one of these on the audio ins and outs. between the computer and the eurorack.

Cheers

Alan.
 
Does it hum even when the tape inputs from the Mac are turned down? I wonder if they did something really stupid in the Behringer circuit design... like a low-ohm resistor between the DC ground and the signal ground coupled with a 2-prong power supply or a wall wart.... :)

You might try building a grounding pigtail that grounds the shield of a plug (plugged into an input or output on the Behringer) directly to a mains ground with a large (say 12 AWG) wire and also passes the signal and ground through to a jack so that you don't lose an input (or output or whatever).
 
Does it hum even when the tape inputs from the Mac are turned down? I wonder if they did something really stupid in the Behringer circuit design... like a low-ohm resistor between the DC ground and the signal ground coupled with a 2-prong power supply or a wall wart.... :)

Yes it probably still buzz / hum.

Behringer did not do something stupid, the computer manufacturers did by not using floating earths, older computers never had these problems.

Alan
 
I think you have it backwards. If every piece of gear had a proper ground, you'd never have ground hum because cheap, ungrounded gear wouldn't dump all its power supply filtering noise down the cable shields, causing induction in the wires within.

By contrast, if every piece of gear were floating, you'd basically have no 60 Hz noise immunity; the skin depth at 60 Hz is about a third of an inch even in copper. At 1 skin depth, you only have about 9 dB of absorption loss. With the more typical quarter millimeter of aluminum, we're talking a fraction of a dB. You might as well not have shields at that point for all the good that they would do.

As for using an ungrounded signal ground in a computer, it's hard enough to keep chirps and crap in the digital ground from leaking into your audio *with* a grounded analog signal ground. Float that sucker and you're totally and completely screwed.

If you meant that the entire computer should be floating, I'm not positive, but I think that in a switched mode power supply, if you don't ground the power supply, you'd essentially have the AC neutral as a ground reference, which in a poorly wired house could be at a dangerously high voltage. The first time somebody got killed because their neutral ground outside broke free and suddenly they got 55VAC as they touched their computer... well, you get the idea.
 
Ok... found a solution.

I was using the volume control on both the mac and the behringer. I decided to simply use only the behringer volume knob and output the mac's at full. I then proceeded to turn the monitors down which gave me a good range on the behringer volume knob to get as quiet or loud as necessary. Buzzing is gone too. Read about this tip in EQ magazine, if anyone's interested in the entire article (article was on how to get rid of hum/buzz) I can get a link.
 
I think you have it backwards. If every piece of gear had a proper ground, you'd never have ground hum because cheap, ungrounded gear wouldn't dump all its power supply filtering noise down the cable shields, causing induction in the wires within.

By contrast, if every piece of gear were floating, you'd basically have no 60 Hz noise immunity; the skin depth at 60 Hz is about a third of an inch even in copper. At 1 skin depth, you only have about 9 dB of absorption loss. With the more typical quarter millimeter of aluminum, we're talking a fraction of a dB. You might as well not have shields at that point for all the good that they would do.

As for using an ungrounded signal ground in a computer, it's hard enough to keep chirps and crap in the digital ground from leaking into your audio *with* a grounded analog signal ground. Float that sucker and you're totally and completely screwed.

If you meant that the entire computer should be floating, I'm not positive, but I think that in a switched mode power supply, if you don't ground the power supply, you'd essentially have the AC neutral as a ground reference, which in a poorly wired house could be at a dangerously high voltage. The first time somebody got killed because their neutral ground outside broke free and suddenly they got 55VAC as they touched their computer... well, you get the idea.

You could ground everything and still have an earth loop, earth loops are caused by different length (or more accuratly different resistance) earth cables from each piece of equipment. That is why studio power should always be star, from a single scource / power point. That ensures ahat as close as possable the earth is the same length.

Unfortonatly some earth cables have crap thin wires (like internal computer earthing) and some have big fat copper cable (like pro gear) so the earthing resistance is different.

Early laptops had double insulated power supplies with no mains earth, never had a earth loop problem, the new ones are mains earth, with the mains earth pin joined to the negative on the low volt side of the power supply, and now there are all kinds of earth problems with the biggest being digital noise from USB sound cards due to an earth loop via the USB cable.

When you refer to cheap ungrounded gear don't be too general, I have pro gear with no mains earth, the reason is that they have a double insulated internal power supply, a internal floating ground (nothing uses a chassis ground as a signal or power return) and therefore has no source for an earth loop.

Cheers
Alan.
 
Hey all,

I have my line out of my Mac Pro going into a Behringer Eurorack MX602A (1/8" out to RCA in). I get a constant buzzing when I turn my main volume (on the mixer) up. This buzzing goes away when I remove the Mac from the equation. Any ideas why this would be happening?

Thanks

hi have you checked for an earth loop, l had to remove the earth from the mains lead to the powered monitors, maybe worth a try. john
 
You could ground everything and still have an earth loop, earth loops are caused by different length (or more accuratly different resistance) earth cables from each piece of equipment. That is why studio power should always be star, from a single scource / power point. That ensures ahat as close as possable the earth is the same length.

Absolutely true. 12-14 AWG stranded or solid copper wire at pretty much any practical length tends to have significantly lower resistance than braided or foil cable shields between devices in most environments, which is why even very sloppy star grounding works 99% of the time. The exceptions can cause much pain and suffering, though. :D


Unfortonatly some earth cables have crap thin wires (like internal computer earthing) and some have big fat copper cable (like pro gear) so the earthing resistance is different.

If your audio interface has its own ground (as it should), this shouldn't matter. Any digital bus noise should get earthed long before it can impact the audio. Actually, this shouldn't matter if the audio interface is designed correctly anyway, but many (most?) aren't, so....


Early laptops had double insulated power supplies with no mains earth, never had a earth loop problem, the new ones are mains earth, with the mains earth pin joined to the negative on the low volt side of the power supply, and now there are all kinds of earth problems with the biggest being digital noise from USB sound cards due to an earth loop via the USB cable.

The main reason that some older laptops had fewer problems is that newer laptops incorporate CPU and GPU clock stepping, voltage stepping, powering cores up and down,, changing bus speeds (and thus RAM power utilization), and other power management techniques, many of which generate huge spikes on both the power and ground busses. Also, newer operating system versions and drivers take advantage of these technologies to a greater degree. The result of this is that newer laptops produce orders of magnitude more digital noise than you could possibly generate with an older laptop even if you tried.

This is further compounded by a push to design cheaper and cheaper power supply circuits to undercut the competition, resulting in less noise damping on the digital grounds than you might have seen in previous generations of hardware.

Top that off with the desire to squeeze more functionality out of USB and FireWire bus-powered devices. The more current the device can potentially drain during operation, the more trouble you're going to have with inrush current exceeding the USB or FireWire specifications. To get around that, the usual fix is to reduce the amount of power filtering. When you do that, you get more digital bleed. This is yet another reason why bus-powered USB and FireWire devices are always something of a compromise.

In my experience, digital noise problems are usually worse if you disconnect the ground on a three-prong modern laptop, though I suspect you could come up with an exception if you tried.


When you refer to cheap ungrounded gear don't be too general, I have pro gear with no mains earth, the reason is that they have a double insulated internal power supply, a internal floating ground (nothing uses a chassis ground as a signal or power return) and therefore has no source for an earth loop.

Bear in mind that the term ground "loop" merely refers to a ground between two pieces of equipment with a high resistance to true ground allowing signal to flow from one device to another across what should be a ground. It does not require a true earth on each device, nor does it require an actual loop, per se. By definition, the audio cable between any piece of gear with a floating ground and any other piece of gear is a "ground loop" by itself; any noise introduced by the device with the floating ground will flow away from the signal ground in the next device over.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying it's not possible to design a two-prong device that rarely causes problems. I'm just saying that in every case where I've actually encountered ground hum, it involved two-prong or wall-wart-powered gear (some of which was, in fact, supposedly "pro" gear).
 
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