Broke Their Equipment...tell me how

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Hubbawho

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I was recording a band in their basement. They had about 1 million wires crossing over eachother all being split a million directions off of one extension cord running from one outlet that was UPSTAIRS.

While I was plugging the guitarist's amp directly into my mixer, we blew a circuit and the lights went off. When we got everything turned back on, his amp was toast and I accepted the blame. It appeared to be my fault. We took it to get fixed, but they said that it would cost more than just buying a new one. So I had to purchase him a bran new Marshall Head...in the end, I ended paying the bad money to record their cd.

Now, a few months later, I'm wondering why the hell that happened. Is plugging a head directly into a mixer a bad thing? I've been told several times to do it by others, and I've done it myself before with no problems, but obviously something went wrong that day. Any ideas about what the heck went wrong so that it doesn't go wrong again?

That band eventually broke up, and formed a new band. now I am going to record that new band, and I'm scared shitless of screwing something up. Is there some kind of contract I could write up to remove myself from this liability...(p.s. I'm doing this recording for free, (this time), in order to regain their trust, and then they plan to record a full length with me later in which case I'll charge)

first I need to make sure that I don't blow up any more of their equipment, second, do you people think that it could've been something other than me that caused that amp to short out?

thanks
 
I don't think you need to worry about regaining their trust, you did the totally honorable thing by buying the guy a new Marshall head. If they don't trust you after that, they never will.

It's possible that when the circuit blew it sent a spike out that fried the amp head. So until you fix the issue of having enough power without blowing a circuit you risk having the same problem again.

That's my take on it anyway.
 
little question, what output did you use, from the marshall to the mixer?

did you use an 8-or-16 ohm output for speakers and plug it in a line in of the mixer? i've never done this myself so don't know what effect it has...
but don't think its healthy...
or worse, did you use an XLR direct out from the marshall, plug it in a mixer XLR with PHANTOM POWER on? i think thats harmful, but once again, i don't ever do that since i think it can be dangerous...

otherwise, if you connected everything the normal way, and you were using only their equipment..i don't think you should take the blame,
seems like something was wrong with their connections, maybe bad grounding in the studio (or basement), to me it seems like their equipment failed that day...not you per sé.. man, if the light go out if you want to record the line out of a marshall..thats kinda abnormal since i've done it several times

i just make the same kinda agreement with the bands:
if i destroy your equipment, i pay, if you destroy mine, you pay...
thats all i can say, and i don't know about contracts, i don't work with contracts yet..its all "under the table" here :rolleyes:
 
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thanks...as for the 8 or 16 ohms, I have no idea, but I'll be sure to check into it. Now, the band is recording at my place. Everything is organized and runs through surge protectors or Furmen's anyways...so at least I made them come to me this time.
 
Do not EVER, EVER,EVER plug the speaker output of anything into your board. Period...Never!

If you were using the line out of the head, something wasn't grounded right (between the board and the head) or the basement was wired with the hot and cold reversed.
 
Hubbawho,

I wouldn't let you anywhere near my equipment at this point ! :D

Just kidding.

It's too bad that you had to pay for something that probably wasn't even your fault.
 
haha...understood.

hmmm...Well I was almost certain that I plugged into the line in...however I'll be very honest, I don't know how to tell the difference between the line in or the speaker out. I am aware that they are different outputs. I am aware of the difference in regular quarter inch cables or speaker cables...but I actually don't know if I did plug into the speaker out. It probably was my fault then...ya mind spelling out to me exactly the difference between the two so that I can make sure I don't do it again?

Thanks
 
I don't know if this detail helps in the diagsosis at all, but I remember that I had hesitated for a split second before plugging the chord into my mixer. I was very near to the input and the end of the chord tapped the metal ring surrounding the input onto my mixer board. That was the very instant when electricity went crazy and zapped back to the amp, frying it's insides. It happened so fast that I can't really explain what I could've done. Maybe it was a combination of their equipment all running off of tons of extension chords, me plugging into the speaker output, and me tapping the metal ring all at the same time.
 
i think you got taken on that one:( First, it should be cheaper to repair. Second, I don't see how you could have blown the head up. The mixer is the more likely thing to get fried. The fact that the power went out points me to looking into the power as a source of the problem. Not only should you have not had to pay for the head, they probably should have paid you for a tech to look over your board:D
 
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Hubbawho said:
hmmm...Well I was almost certain that I plugged into the line in...however I'll be very honest, I don't know how to tell the difference between the line in or the speaker out.
Click to expand...

Uh oh. I guess I take back my earlier statement, then. :D Hint: There should be some print somewhere that says "Line Out."

I don't know if this detail helps in the diagsosis at all, but I remember that I had hesitated for a split second before plugging the chord into my mixer.
Click to expand...

That was your guardian angel trying to tell you that you were about to fry the shit out of the amp. :D

I was very near to the input and the end of the chord tapped the metal ring surrounding the input onto my mixer board. That was the very instant when electricity went crazy and zapped back to the amp, frying it's insides.
Click to expand...

Hub, I'm serious this time. You are not allowed near any of my equipment! :D Re-read Farview's post. Particularly the part where he says never in bold print.

From now on, Hub, just don't try and plug anything from the amp to the mixer. You don't need to, anyway. Just mic up the amp. Throw a 57 on the speaker grille. Done. What are you trying to track an amp that way for, anyway? Those Line Outs sound like crap; this is guitar tracking 101 stuff. It's probably a blessing in disguise that your session got cut short.

.
 
true, they do sound like crap (especially the hiss and hum)...I don't work that way anymore anyways so no more worries. At that point in my life however, I was VERY amateur. Since then, I've learned A LOT, but now that the band members were going to give me another try, I wanted to take every precaution and at least be able to inform them what exactly went wrong the first time. Ya know, that way I could show them that I've advanced a bit. Thanks for the help.
 
whoa, if you plugged a powered speaker out it would definitely fry the amp.....i did it one time by pure accident and fried part of a marshall valvestate....all it needed was a new power supply though......then to make more of an idiot out of myself i didn't unplug it before going to take the blown fuse out and i gave myself quite a shock!
 
HAHA...well then that's obviously what I did.

Dumb question then...of the speaker output and the line out, which one plugs into the cabinet? Would that be the speaker out I assume? And then the line out is to be used for a mixer or something else...right?
 
well, its written under (or maybe above) the 1/4" output jack:

8OHM or 16OHM

if you see that, only connect a speaker to that jack..nothing else,
OHM is dangerous... :mad: any output that says line is OK...

my younger brother is buying a little marshall soon, with those same outputs,
i'm gonna tell him three times what the OHM-outputs are for :rolleyes:

question; does that band still have that broken marshall?
can't u ask them to give that marshall to you?
maybe u can just replace the power supply then...and keep the top,
since you gave them a new head, they shouldn't mind giving you the old one, no? or don't tell me they sold it..

i feel sorry for you, these kind of things are nightmares...
 
If the Marshall is a tube amp you must have a speaker attached to the head. If you run a line out of a tube head for recording purposes and don't hook up a power soak (speaker) of some kind, The head is toast in a few minutes.

The channel on your board should be toast also if you ran any signal from the Marshall's speaker output to your mixer. Any output from a speaker output will toast a channel on a mixer as well as anything in the signal chain in less than 5 sec.
If you would have had reference monitors hooked up at the time they would most likely be toast also.

I'm guessing the AC voltage to the head was well below safe operating levels and He (guitar player) was playing his guitar though it without a cab for a few minutes.

I doubt you had anything to do with the amp meltdown.
Marshall's break....that's what they do best.
Try getting a Marshall serviced for ANY problem in my Home town. Won't happen.
 
interesting... But yes they did offer me the old "broken" head, I just have never gotten around to picking it up. Lucky for me, I never got as far as plugging in into my mixer, remember it hit the metal ring around the input just before I put it in...and zapped instantly. So by pure shit luck, I only toasted his amp and not everything I own. lol WOW.
 
one more thing.....when i went out of the speaker out by accident, just the amp blew, not the PA system I was going into.....so the stuff in the signal chain doesn't always blow, and if the amp blows first quickly, the power is gone, leaving nothing to blow the rest of the signal chain (i know, i would have thought the PA system would blow first, but it didn't......i don't know why?)
 
It was more than likely the head in the first place, with some power issues thrown in for good measure. If they had cables running power they may not have been grounded and possibly not adequate for the current demand of the equipment.

The bottom-line though -- things sometimes go snap, crackle and pop, and start on fire in this business. You need to protect yourself from liability right up front. If you spill coffee in someone’s console that’s one thing, but if you just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when a 20-year old capacitor decides to die – that’s not your fault.

Number 1. Do a quick site survey of the available resources before you even touch a button. Check the power with a multimeter. Also check for miswiring at the outlets. Every musician should have this little gizmo in his bag of tricks. It’s an AC outlet checker. You want to be confident that hot, neutral and ground are all wired uniformly among the various outlets you will use.

Radio Shack sells one. So do Lowes and Home Depot for around $5.00.

http://support.radioshack.com/support_meters/doc15/15162.htm

If they demand an absolute liability on your part, then walk off site until power and wiring issues are addressed. Stuff happens. You don’t want to be around unreasonable people when it does – you’ll go broke. :)
 
Farview said:
Do not EVER, EVER,EVER plug the speaker output of anything into your board. Period...Never!

If you were using the line out of the head, something wasn't grounded right (between the board and the head) or the basement was wired with the hot and cold reversed.
Click to expand...

Can you explain why please..?
Cheers
 
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