Brand Noob - Could Use Some Help

[blondewithammo]

Hey, guys. My name is Kristen. I am a singer/songwriter, not a musician but I mess around with keyboards. I really want to record music in analog. I've done quite a bit of research, but no matter how basic the FAQ or forum is I seem to get in over my head fast. I am not a tech-head at all! Cables and wires piss me off. But I love the sound of analog and I love the idea of being able to record my own music independently, without relying on anyone else. I'm an independent girl who likes vintage everything! (I drive a '77 Nova, ok?)

I want to start recording my voice and a keyboard, and perhaps from there, drums and guitar. My understanding (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that to get started I need the following things:

A 4-track (at least) recorder -- I am looking at a TASCAM Portastudio, new in the box, on Craigslist. Is this a good idea?
A microphone -- dynamic is ok -- anything else I should know?
A keyboard -- my hetero lifemate is in Chicago with her kick-ass Roland, so I need to buy one myself. Any tips on a cheap but good one?
Headphones - duh

I do not know what kind of tapes I should buy, or how I can get those tapes onto my computer and from there onto a CD.

I am basically super, super, super new, and need to be told gently but firmly exactly how I get started doing this stuff...

Oh, and if I have a 4track can I, for example, take a vocal and keyboard track and compress it onto one track so I can add more instruments besides drums and guitar, such as bass, harmonica, etc.? Is that possible or would I need an 8 track?

Just any info you can give a recording "virgin" would be so helpful! Thanks, guys!

Kristen
Dallas, TX

 

[HomeGos]

hi there!

Almost evrybody starts with a 4 track, direct outs for each track can help to bounce each track to cPU

1- get a tascam Mk series would be a good start ( if u want to bounce to your CPU u ll need a sequencer and an audio intrface , look for m-audio, edirol but thats another ballroom)
2- get a shure 57 or 58 microphone

3- get some new casette tapes,

the right cables and a multifx ( reverb, delay, etc... ) can be a future invest.

 

[vijsolo]

May I ask?

Why if you wan't to have everithyng in computer at the end you want to record in analog?

Why not simply buy an audio interface and record directly into the PC?
This is much easyer for a beginner to start this way than meesing around with analog?

 

[blondewithammo]

Hi, thanks for writing!

I guess the answer would be I want to capture the analog sound in recording. The immediacy and the "imperfection" of it. I am a performer at heart, have been for many years, and don't want to lose that in recording.

From my understanding musicians like Jack White and others record in analog. Of course eventually people can buy the CD or download the MP3 but the analog sound has been captured...

Does that make sense?

K.

 

[blondewithammo]

Hey, thanks for writing, HomeGos.

So after recording to the 4track, in order to get the recording onto my computer I'll need a sequencer and an audio interface? I thought I only needed those to record directly onto my computer?

Thanks for your help!

K.

 

[vijsolo]

That makes sence.

Cheeerz!

 

[DuddyGuy]

which particular tascam model are you looking at?

 

[blondewithammo]

Hi, DuddyGuy. There are a few I have been looking at, just browsing Craigslist. One is a 424 mkII, one is a 414, one is an MF P01.

I am just looking to spend as little as possible since I am just starting out and who knows what I may end up needing or wanting?

Thanks for your help.

K.

 

[DuddyGuy]

the 424 mkII is an excellent machine, out of that list that is what I would go for, with the 414 coming in second and the mf p01 coming in last, as it is a very basic machine which you will probably outgrow very quickly.

you need to be aware that it is getting more difficult and more expensive to come across good quality cassettes as well, do a search in here for a thread called "where to buy cassettes" by famous beagle, I believe that will show his problems and how he eventually obtained some.

in terms of microphones, you should do some research and buy something decent (doesn't have to be expensive) don't get some junk from radioshack, I believe there is a cheap behringer dynamic which is pretty well regarded... I would have to look up the model number though.

I don't have much knowledge of keyboards... but my setup involves a midi controller (a keyboard which doesnt make sound... just sends midi data to other sources which then make sound) sending notes into my computer where a software synthesizer actually makes the sound, you can probably find a used controller on cl for 50-100 bucks and there are a number of good free soft synths.

And yes with most 4 tracks you should be able to combine multiple tracks into 1, it's called a bounce. Most machines should be able to do all the routing internally, but if you end up with a deck that has minimal features you may have to get a a little more creative.

ah well those are my answers... they're guarenteed to be at least 50-60% accurate

 

[sweetbeats]

Kristen,

Welcome! Hang out as much as you need to here. I think you'll find a non-judgemental unsnobish and helpful group here. We like analog gear and making music with it whether it is "big-iron" (big wide-format open reel recorders) or the beloved cassette portastudio.

Okay...

What model is the Tascam Portastudio that is on craigslist? A Tascam cassette portastudio is a really great place to begin, and the neat thing is there is lots of room for growth in it as well...they are usable by "newbies" but have features to support experienced users as well. They have the potential to produce surprisingly good results. They also help people new to the recording side of things get used to the process, terminology and concepts of multitracking and they do it in a fairly painless way so that you have fun experiencing your multitrack project coming together so I wholeheartedly support you looking at a cassette portastudio. You don't like all the wires and stuff and you'll have a minimum to deal with using a portastudio. I also push the Tascam offerings because they are the most prolific and so there is a better user community to support you on your journey. Others may disagree or have other suggestions but I'd recommend the 414 mkII, 424 mkII or 424 mkIII.

Mic...yes, dynamic is great especially for what you want to do as you won't have to mess with special power supplies for the mic...just plug 'er into the recorder. I second the recommendation to get a Shure SM58 ("old faithful" for dynamic vocal mics...great sound, durable, also works well for many instruments too.), but if that is too expensive for just getting going any general purpose dynamic mic will do, okay? I got a pair of "Starpower" dynamic mics for my 4 year old son to use as overheads for his drumkit...I tried them out once on my drumkit and was surprised at how well they worked...the mics were on special...got the pair for $10 from Musician's Friend.

I'm not a keyboard guy so I'm gonna opt out of recommending anything...I use an old Yamaha DX-7 to trigger sounds in my computer so I don't use the synth part of the DX-7, just the keys and the MIDI connection.

Tapes: any Tascam Portastudio uses "Type II High Bias" tapes...also referred to as "Chrome" tapes. Maxell XL-II, or TDK SM series tapes are what you can still find but Type II cassettes are getting scarce...the Maxell's are harder to find than the TDK's...Here's a 10-pack for $25...not trying to push Musician's Friend, its just where I happened to recently get stuff you are talking about here. Shop around.

"Compressing" tape tracks: what you are talking about (combining tape tracks onto an open track and then re-recording on the original tracks) is called "bouncing" or "ping-ponging" or "collapsing", and yes any cassette portastudio allows for that. You basically playback the tracks you want to bounce and "route" those playback sugnals to the open track and record away. There is a way to do that internally so no wires needed. We can get into helping you with that when you get there. I recommend you start with a 4-track and grow from there if it becomes limiting, but the 4 track has a better sonic potential than a cassette 8 track (though both sound great), and is generally less expensive and a smaller less overwhelming package...and given some creativity you'd be surprised what you can do with 4 tracks...check THIS out compliments of forum member famous beagle done on a Tascam 414 mkII :

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=328768&songID=7774583

If you want to mixdown to your computer from the 4 tracks to stereo you still need a thingy in between the cassette machine and the computer...a thingy that converts the analog signal and converts it to digital, the "audio interface". No need for a sequencer unless you want to have MIDI tracks going on along with the cassette tracks. The audio interface can be as cheap as the soundcard that is already on your computer, and there is free software you can get to "record" the digitized audio. Then if you have a CD burner on your computer most all of them come with at least basic "burning" software to make data or audio CD's.

 

[blondewithammo]

Sweetbeats. Oh, sweet Sweetbeats. Guess who is on my Christmas list? With one simple post you made everything so clear to me. All you had to do was talk to me like I'm a 4 year old! LOL! I'm so happy and so grateful to you! I now know just what I need and how to get started...

Ok, so I will get started using this advice and I'm sure I will be back soon and often as I go...

Printing this page out so I can use everyone's super awesome kick ass advice as I shop around and start recording!

I'm excited!

Kristen

 

[blondewithammo]

Oh, DuddyGuy, I just saw your post. Totally not "good fer nothin"!

I am confused -- this is gonna sound so dumb -- about the terms "Midi" and "synths." Can you explain it to me like I'm a seven-year-old retard?

Thanks!

 

[DuddyGuy]

Oh, DuddyGuy, I just saw your post. Totally not "good fer nothin"!

I am confused -- this is gonna sound so dumb -- about the terms "Midi" and "synths." Can you explain it to me like I'm a seven-year-old retard?

Thanks!

let me give it a shot,

When you referred to a keyboard earlier you were talking about a one piece unit, A set of keys that makes sound.

Lets separate that one thing into two separate things... the physical keys that you play and the electronics that actually make the sound.

A midi controller would be the keys, and a synth would be the part that actually makes the sound... am I making sense?I'm not so good at this

Now a SoftSynth is a computer program that does the same thing as the "synth" it makes the sound

If you have a midi controller, you can attach it to the computer and use a softsynth to make a pretty "kick ass" sound, especially since there are some good softsynth programs out there which are free

In my opinion going this way can be the cheapest way to get a high quality sound, as all in one synths can get pretty expensive. This way is a little more complicated though so you have to balance what you want to spend and how much you want to get into the technical side of things.... hope that cleared it up a little!

 

[sweetbeats]

With one simple post you made everything so clear to me

SWEET!

Duddy, I think that is a really good explanation of the differences between synths and controllers and yes a controller is much cheaper, and even moreso if you get an old keyboard like I did that has MIDI capability...I'm using the keys to control a softsynth in the computer and not using the synthesizer part of the keyboard...$60, BUT...

Keep in mind that, though that is a less expensive road to go, like Duddy alluded to it is more complicated. Your "synthesizer" now becomes a set of keys and your computer, and if your computer isn't a laptop then all your work has to hover around your computer unless you want to move all that around... And if it IS a laptop, there are still more wires and boxes to haul around. The controller (i.e. keys) would have to connect to a MIDI interface, so that the MIDI signals generated by the controller can get into the computer to tell the software synthesizer to make noise, and then the noise would have to get out of the computer through an audio interface (again that could just be the jack you connect your computer speakers to...the soundcard). Bear in mind that often an audio interface will also have a MIDI interface in the same box which is nice, but I'm sure right about now you are wretching thinking about all these boxes and wires and stuff. So...

Maybe an actual "synthesizer" is the thing for you (keys and noisemaker in one unit). Though I'm not a synth guy, I do know that Roland products, while great, also tend to be more spendy. I've always been really happy with Yamaha products...well-built, well-designed and good bang for the buck. Others need to weigh in on this issue, but start with what you want to spend and then browse around on the internet at places like Interstate Music Supply or Musician's Friend or what have you and start getting a feel for the prices and from there you may hone in on something and have new questions, or maybe you find you need to adjust your budget.

 

[DuddyGuy]

SWEET!

Duddy, I think that is a really good explanation of the differences between synths and controllers and yes a controller is much cheaper, and even moreso if you get an old keyboard like I did that has MIDI capability...I'm using the keys to control a softsynth in the computer and not using the synthesizer part of the keyboard...$60, BUT...

Keep in mind that, though that is a less expensive road to go, like Duddy alluded to it is more complicated. Your "synthesizer" now becomes a set of keys and your computer, and if your computer isn't a laptop then all your work has to hover around your computer unless you want to move all that around... And if it IS a laptop, there are still more wires and boxes to haul around. The controller (i.e. keys) would have to connect to a MIDI interface, so that the MIDI signals generated by the controller can get into the computer to tell the software synthesizer to make noise, and then the noise would have to get out of the computer through an audio interface (again that could just be the jack you connect your computer speakers to...the soundcard). Bear in mind that often an audio interface will also have a MIDI interface in the same box which is nice, but I'm sure right about now you are wretching thinking about all these boxes and wires and stuff. So...

Maybe an actual "synthesizer" is the thing for you (keys and noisemaker in one unit). Though I'm not a synth guy, I do know that Roland products, while great, also tend to be more spendy. I've always been really happy with Yamaha products...well-built, well-designed and good bang for the buck. Others need to weigh in on this issue, but start with what you want to spend and then browse around on the internet at places like Interstate Music Supply or Musician's Friend or what have you and start getting a feel for the prices and from there you may hone in on something and have new questions, or maybe you find you need to adjust your budget.

$60 DX-7?

you my friend, get the deals

 

[DuddyGuy]

edit: irrelevant