Blending Vocals in a Mix 101

  • Thread starter Thread starter Joe E
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fenix said:


if this is true, what happens if the whole band stops in a song and there's just a little acoustic part with vocals? Are you going to tweak all the eq knobs of the acoustic guitar really quick?

If it sounds in your face by itself, it will sound in your face in the mix.
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Definitly YES !!! It is quite commen to Eq (expecialy guitars) small sections or even choruses differently, versus other sections.
If the acoustic would show up on its on it would get a different Eq.

Your example even more so prooves my general point, that you have to treat each and every song as if its a world of its own.
If the acoustic is going to show up a lot alone in the mix then it will be one of the focul points and be treated as such creating a different outlook on the sound of the acoustic in the mix.
It's a different outlook if its only a rythm part EVEN if it shows up on its on for a few secs. You use automation or pasting.



Are you a pro engineer? If you are... have you never cut a acoustic guitar drasticly to get it to cut through??!!? :eek:
Have you never EQued a bass so it sounds bad on its own? yet fits the mix like a glove. is this concept new to you?.
 
I think the two of you have a very good debate going on here, and I can see where both of you have some good points.

As far as who gets the nod, I think both of you are right and both of you are wrong.

In Fenix's defense:

Going with something like an accoustic guitar track with little or no bass cutting is a very ideal, purist way of doing things. But unfortunately, it's not living in reality. At the same time, if you are forced to severely alter and contort the sound of it - or any other track for that matter - I would be worried about other issues: You need to reconsider your mic choice, or it's placement, for one. In the case of an accoustic guitar, GET IT AWAY FROM THAT SOUND HOLE. CHANGE YOUR STRINGS! Consider ditching that LDC and grab something with a smaller diaphragm. Often, these steps can give you a sound that isn't as full, but doesn't annoy the fuck out of you when soloed either. :)

If something needs to be messed with that drastically, I would have to wonder just how necessary it is in the mix in the first place. As nicely as you can, ask your talent how important that track really is.

In Shailat's defense:

Even though Johnboy Walton claims to be a deaf newbie, he brings up a seriously thoughtful point: Tracks don't exist in vaccums. Johnboy mentions Dream Theatre's guitar and bass as being more like "one instrument" instead of two separate ones. The bass acting as the "low end" to the guitar's mid/top end. Ideally, the bass guitar will also act in harmony with the bass drum to create one sound.

So if you solo either of these instruments, you will probably say to yourself: "Damn, this sounds really . . . incomplete in solo mode." Well duh, that's because you are only hearing half of the "real" instrument. In Dream Theatre's case, the real instrument is actually the interaction of the guitar and bass together. I suppose you'd probably come to the same conclusion if you were to listen to a guitar with the low E, A, and D strings missing. I'm sure that would sound pretty bad, too, but much improved once you add the other strings.

On that train of logic, I suppose you could solo the various tracks in a harmony vocal and think "Hmmm, something just missing here. It's like I'm only listening to one voice that isn't even the melody." :) And I know a lot of people who have outstanding voices for harmony, but you'd NEVER want to hear their voice in solo mode ! !
 
By the way . . .

It's been a while since I've said this, so let me just remind you to CHANGE YOUR DAMN STRINGS !"

Thank you.
 
Chess,
Wow, man! you're gonna give me a seriously inflated ego with comments like that! :) But thanks for the support, I get so much crap from my bandmates about my mixing that it's nice to have someone say I'm at least hearing well, even if I can't mix to save my keester.

That said, also in Shailat's defense, listen to that same album (sorry to keep coming back to it.) At the beginning of track 4 ("Erotomania," I believe) there is a solo keyboard. It's a really distorted organ sound, and it's got all the lows and some of the mids cut out. It sounds really thin by itself. But it works. When the whole band comes in, I don't think the EQ changes, it just nestles back into its part of the mix and everybody else fills in around it. Going out on a limb here, I'd guess that in this case that thin, lonely synth just helps to create some contrast. I'm guessing that this won't work for fenix's acoustic, but hey, it's worth a try?

I like the dynamic EQ idea, now I just have to get automation in my O1V working... :)
 
Is it just me, or is this just a really good thread?

ALL of you guys do a good job of explaining/illustrating your points. Not as good as some of Ed's or Harvey's threads, but intelligent and entertaining nonetheless. 4-stars! Thanks, gentlemen.
 
The mix on "Awake" is *@$#in' excellent. I know exactly what you mean by the "bass filling in the guitar". A couple of other albums I've heard do this (in the heavier genre) are Sevendust (very first album) and Nothingface's "Audio Guide to Everyday Attrocity" album.

The only issue I see comes when a metal guitar wants to do "chugs" and get that beefy low-end tone. If you cut out most of the low end, the low end resonance you get when doing palm-mutes is not there, taking away the "coolness" of doing it. You just can't cut TOO high, so you can get some of that lower midrange to give it a little boost.
 
Johnboy Walton said:

I like the dynamic EQ idea, now I just have to get automation in my O1V working... :)
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You dont have to use automation if you own even a simple mixer.
You simply run the track through 2 faders and bring up the different eq'ued channal when you need them.
 
great thread. a lot of textbook stuff as someone pointed out, but still some interesting thoughts prevail.
 
This has been a great post!

As far as text book info, well it's in the text books for some reason! These are all great starting points for mixing.

Thanks for all the great posts.

Joe
 
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