Bleedover, tips anyone?

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Dani Pace

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Anyone got any tips for cutting down on bleedover when recording multiple instruments, especially from drum and vocal mics. Should I try clocer micing and recording at a lower volume or what? My room is 13 ft. by 26 ft. with 10 ft celing, recording 2 vocal mics, 2 guitar amps and 1 bass amp (all cloce miced) and 4 mics on drums (2 overhead, 1 kick and 1 on toms) I've got things spread out as far as I can to seperate as much as possible but am still getting lots of bleed, drums on the vocal track, bass on drum track sort of thing. And suggestions on cutting down on at least some of the bleedover would be helpfull and appreciated.
 
You might wanna try using mics with tighter pickup patterns. You didn't really state what you were using in particular, but for this purpose you're gonna want to use directional mics as often as possible.

In addition, I'd suggest using a noise gate on your drums, toms and kick especially (you don't wanna gate the overheads). A software-based gate would be ideal for this purpose because it can sort of "look ahead" and anticipate what's coming. Don't gate during tracking, wait till the mixing stage.

Perhaps some forum members could offer better suggestions if you gave more of a description of what you are using to record. Could you give some detail on the mics, outboard gear, etc. that you are using?
 
have a good time, all the time

and also... put the amps in the corners away from the drums and even put a blanket over them... close mic EVERYTHING and remember... a little bleeding is ok because it takes pain to know pleasure... just rambling

don't forget to get the amps off the floor... and I suggest DI with the bass... of course if everything sounds like you want it to and the performance is good... you can probably do it all right next to each other
 
There are primarily 4 ways to deal with mic bleed, and sometimes none of them are practical:
1. Use EQ going in, or in post production. A lot of people, for instance, will use bass cut on the overheads to reduce bleed from kick and toms. They will cut highs on kick and toms for the same reason. This can help when the sounds you are trying to separate are clearly in different frequency ranges. It won't do a damn thing about voice and guitar, for instance, which share frequency bands. Others hate it, because they really want the overheads to pick up the whole kit.

2. Use physical isolation. In other words, the recording is live, but the mics are in different rooms. I often use a "monster in a box", a big mucking plywood box lined with carpet and acoustic foam. The guitar amp is bolted inside with a mic, and the whole box is placed in another room. This means you need a lot of space, and everyone must wear headphones. You also need a good headphone amp with a lot of channels, and a bunch of headphones.

3. Record by layered overdubs. Start with a scratch track of the guitar and vocals. Then lay down bass and drums with bass going di. Then erase the scratch tracks, and add the other parts one by one. This requires musicians who are versatile and flexible, as well as skilled. It works for recording artists, not bad dance bands.

4. Use a noise gate. Often they come as a set of 4 (a "quad" noise gate). This can be hardware or software. It will have parameters- range, threshold, and release. The threshold determines how loud something has to be to get a signal through (in other words, to open the gate), Release, like on a compressor, determines how gradually or abruptly the gate will close when the noise level drops below the threshold. Range determines how much noise reduction the gate applies. In other words, is it a 4" thick oak door, or a screen door? The downside-The higher your threshold, the higher the range, and the faster the release, the more obvious it is. For something abrupt and fast, like toms, fairly high threshold and range, and fairly quick release time can be used. For something like voice or crash, it has to be pretty subtile, or it will suck. Right now I'm recording a radio play with multiple voices in a live studio setting. The noise gate is my friend, as long as it's used gently. If you accept that the gate can't get rid of all the bleed, you can get it to reduce a lot of the bleed without being obvious. There are, of course, software plugins that do the same thing. Even my little Kord PXR4 has a noise gate in it.

Hope this helps-Richie
 
Do you have to record everyone at once. I direct in the guitar and bass while the drummer lays his tracks down then I erase the bass and guitar and have them each record their own part thru the amp, then after the song is sounding good I add in the vocals last, no bleed and you get a clean sound without a bunch of things fighting for space in the eq.
 
The secret is microphones with a nice off axis response, so don't use any SM57. I know they're much more expensive, but a Beyer M201 and a Sennheiser MD421 or 441 has a much nicer off axis response.

I have very little bleed on guitar and bass tracks, almost nothing. The only bleed that can bother is on OH, so you better use a decent pair of mics.

An ORTF pair close to the drums will reduce the bleed significantly.

I have eight noisegates but never use them since they spoil the sound.

Let bleed be your friend, use it, you won't need any room mics.

Recording jazz bands is another problem, bleed all over the place, what about an upright bass? So you better use mics with a very nice off axis response like MD441 or ribbons. Ribbons have the nicest OAR.
 
OK the mics I am using aren't the greatest but for the time being they are all I've got. Vocals are going through Audio Technica PROax, guitars (amps) through EV N/D257B, kick through Soundtech STM90, overheads Samson R21, bass is direct line. I know the overheads are really cheapos but they bring out cymbals quite well. All mics are preamped before going to the recorder. I'm sure better mics would make life easier for me but aren't in the budget at this time (hopefully soon) so I'm stuck with these for now. I'm just trying to get the best sound with what I have to work with.
 
i'd try looking at bleed as a part of your palette - not something to kill - as you won't 100% without isolation. shake it's hand...i work a one room situation and make it work.

how "live" is your room? is there a lot of sound bouncing off of reflective surfaces making the bleed ugly? if so - deaden up.

how loud are your instruments? the band should sound good in the room.

bass bleed - try rolling off some lows in the room and adding it with eq during mix. bad bass bleed to me is that stuff that booms. try to minimize that and get the bass closer to the drums so the bleed is actually clearer and sounds more inline with the DI. (sounds nuts - i know...but try it!)

bleed into vocal mics - that's a rough one. i usually track with no vocals as the bleed is sooooooooo nuts in those mics. if you have a good vocalist - go for it - one of my best snare sounds came from the drum spill into the guy's vocal mic downstairs away from the drums...it was a 57 too!

good luck -

Mike
 
Dani Pace said:
Anyone got any tips for cutting down on bleedover when recording multiple instruments, especially from drum and vocal mics.


You can either track the instruments separately ... or play live while isolating everything in separate rooms (just use long cables, and monitor everything with headphones).

Otherwise, you're going to get plenty of bleed. That's just how it works.
 
+1 on what Han, Bigtoe and Chessrock said.

Unless you can control it 100%, embrace it. You can create more natural sounding recordings with it, if you use the right mics and place them well.
 
Thanks guys. I know that by the final mix the bleed blends in and provides a little ambience to the overall sound and that is fine, I like it there. My set up is in an old house and I've got a couple of extra rooms presently being used for storage, guess its time to clean them out and expand my recording environment.
 
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