beyerdynamic M-130

[ofajen]

Got a pair of these a few months ago. They are really great mikes, I must say. Very versatile, all around figure-8 ribbon mikes. They have that essential, smooth ribbon sound with no vices. Only issue is the output is low, so you need quiet preamps, and even then, some sources are too quiet. Don't try using them on harpsichord! Also nice because they are pretty symmetrical and work well in pairs or for MS.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[soundchaser59]

If you have a pair of them, then I would strongly recommend looking at the AEA TRP "The Ribbon Preamp." 84 db of clean gain!

 

[ofajen]

If you have a pair of them, then I would strongly recommend looking at the AEA TRP "The Ribbon Preamp." 84 db of clean gain!

Thanks, I've already set my sights on the TRP. It's just a matter of when I can afford it. I talked at some length with both Wes Dooley and Joe Koomar (of Sound Devices, whose MixPre I use a lot). Joe acknowledged that the MixPre is superb for condenser mikes but not optimal for ribbon mikes. He's even discussed that issue at trade shows with Wes and feels that the preamps on his new Series 7 recorders are better in that regard. Anyway, I'm just waiting to do one of those home demo things with the TRP and an AEA mike when I can afford to keep the TRP! Then, of course, I'm going to want a Mytek 2-channel ADC to go with it.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[leddy]

I have a pair of M130's. I always liked the M130 as a side mic for M/S, so I picked up a second for Blumlein. Frankly though, I have not been successful. I'm not blaming the mics so much, perhaps I have not got the hang of placing them for Blumlein...

How are you using the pair? What are you recording?

 

[ofajen]

I have a pair of M130's. I always liked the M130 as a side mic for M/S, so I picked up a second for Blumlein. Frankly though, I have not been successful. I'm not blaming the mics so much, perhaps I have not got the hang of placing them for Blumlein...

How are you using the pair? What are you recording?

Are you asking how I set the mikes up as a coincident pair, or how I place that setup in such a way as to get a good sounding result? I'm assuming it's the latter.

I'm actually using them most down here in my little studio, though they can work well upstairs in a more live room where I have my piano. I do some tracking down here, and I usually record using ASC Studio Traps around the mikes in the Quick Sound Field arrangement. That only works with omni or figure-8 mikes.

Most of my tracking is actually mono, but occasionally I'll track stereo this way, and of course, if it's just a spur of the moment live thing, I'll record in stereo to create a richer sound. The crossed figure-8s work well in the QSF because you get a wash of diffuse but correlated sound at the mikes within about 5 msec of the instrument sound and then not a lot after that. Bottom line is it sounds great, a fairly "live" and full dry sound, if that makes sense.

I haven't done that much piano recording yet with the M-130s or with the grand piano at all, for that matter, so I won't claim that I've really gotten the hang of recording piano well in that live room, nor that the Blumlein coincident setup is the best for that. I've made some good drum recordings in that space with the M-130s, though.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[leddy]

Are you asking how I set the mikes up as a coincident pair, or how I place that setup in such a way as to get a good sounding result? I'm assuming it's the latter.

I don't think you mentioned Blumlein specifically, so I wanted to see if you were using them as a spaced pair or something.

I record live jazz. I tried twice with them in Blumein, and I got some comb-filtering both times. I'm not really sure why. Experimenting at home, I had good results. It was a shame because I loved the imaging. I can get a great recording in the same room with spaced omnis - why the heck can't Blumlein work?

Oh well. Like I said, M/S has worked well with one of them paired with my M160, or an omni mid like an Earthworks. They're just so cool. I doubt I'd ever sell them. I thought about giving up on Blumlein and selling one of them - but I'll try a few more times.

By the way, my Sytek pres seem to work well with them.

 

[ofajen]

I don't think you mentioned Blumlein specifically, so I wanted to see if you were using them as a spaced pair or something.

I record live jazz. I tried twice with them in Blumein, and I got some comb-filtering both times. I'm not really sure why. Experimenting at home, I had good results. It was a shame because I loved the imaging. I can get a great recording in the same room with spaced omnis - why the heck can't Blumlein work?

Oh well. Like I said, M/S has worked well with those mics. They're just so cool. I doubt I'd ever sell them. I thought about giving up on Blumlein and selling one of them - but I'll try a few more times.

By the way, my Sytek pres seem to work well with them.

OK. Theoretically, Blumlein should work great for live recording with great imaging. But in the real world, sometimes the environment isn't right for that and if you can't fix it, it's best to move on and figure out what will work OK.

Bear in mind that the figure 8 pattern gives you a strong signal from in back that is opposite in polarity, so the sound from the back should not be a coherent echo of the sound from the front or things will be pretty awful.

I do use them in the Blumlein setup. I do some tracking here, and I usually record using the ASC Studio Traps around the mikes in the Quick Sound Field arrangement. The crossed figure-8s work well in the QSF because you get a wash of diffuse but correlated sound at the mike within about 5 msec of the instrument sound and then not a lot after that. Bottom line is it sounds great.

You could, in theory, use those same Studio Traps in any recording setting to control the nature of the reflected sound coming back to the mikes from the rear, and make the Blumlein setup sound good, but of course, aesthetically, that's probably only going to be allowed/practical if the recording is made without an audience.

The omnis do OK because they record equally from all directions without the polarity reversed lobe. They basically just sample the pressure at two points. The only issues you really pick up are mono-incompatibilty due to the timing issues created by the separation of the mikes. When the same signal comes to the two mikes at different times, it helps create a sense of space, but if you try to mix to mono, you get comb filtering. No free lunch, it seems!

Oh, and in the studio these days I've been trying them on acoustic guitars, banjo, harmonica and various other things.

Cheers,

Otto

 

[leddy]

Is there a rough rule of thumb on where a Blumlein pair works best in relation to the critical distance (where direct sound and room reverb are equal), or no?

I tried them in pretty close. Since the rear picks up the same amount as the front, I put them in tight. It was hard to monitor because I was playing on the gigs. It's a large room - there was no wall within 75 feet of the rear of the Blumlein array. I may have been too close and had some direct sound getting to the rear, or I could have been getting a bad reflection from the piano lid or something like that. Who knows.

Yeah, no free lunch. I hate that my spaced omni recordings sound great in stereo but lousy in mono. I like M/S too, but it does not compete with the nice spread you get with spaced omnis.

 

[ofajen]

Is there a rough rule of thumb on where a Blumlein pair works best in relation to the critical distance (where direct sound and room reverb are equal), or no?

I tried them in pretty close. Since the rear picks up the same amount as the front, I put them in tight. It was hard to monitor because I was playing on the gigs. It's a large room - there was no wall within 75 feet of the rear of the Blumlein array. I may have been too close and had some direct sound getting to the rear, or I could have been getting a bad reflection from the piano lid or something like that. Who knows.

Yeah, no free lunch. I hate that my spaced omni recordings sound great in stereo but lousy in mono. I like M/S too, but it does not compete with the nice spread you get with spaced omnis.

First, the "rule" is that you absolutely must be within the critical distance, but then you find the best spot by experiment and critical listening.

Also bear in mind that any direct sound or strong lateral reflections coming into the side quadrants will be picked up by a positive lobe on one channel and a negative lobe on the other. That makes it sound 'hollow" in stereo and "phasey" in mono.

You might want to rethink M/S (another Blumlein suggestion first pursued in earnest by Danish State Radio). The Blumlein figure-8 stereo needs favorable source and performance spaces, which is why it isn't used as much as M/S in the real world. The figure-8 stereo accurately captures the defects in the performance space and blends them into the stereo image. When you can really control things (the way I do here in the studio) it works great.

Cheers,

Otto