Best Mics for Pipe Organ

  • Thread starter Thread starter evm1024
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How about long-ribbon mics (RCA/AEA, Coles, Royer) in Blumlein configuration?
 
I recorded my fathers Allen Theater Organ with a pair of Earthworks QTC1's which did a decent job. It's not a pipe organ but it is extreemly loud with 11 speakers spaced through out his living and dining room which is a large L shaped area. It also has a digital reproduction of a pipe organ so I guess this somewhat qualifies as a pipe organ. He's 85 years old and still plays every day for an hour or more. He paid a ton for his Allen ($60K) and I tried to tell him to look for a used one but I should have known better than to try to tell a retired Air Force Colonel what to do. :-) Here's a link for the organ I recorded. Hope this helps.

http://www.allenorgan.com/www/products/maintheatre.html
 
AGCurry said:
How about long-ribbon mics (RCA/AEA, Coles, Royer) in Blumlein configuration?
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Blumlein gives you too much room, in most cases.
 
Harvey Gerst said:
Blumlein gives you too much room, in most cases.
Click to expand...

Yes, I guess you're right. I got great sound from Blumlein recording a choir in a smaller room, but inferior results in a bigger room, especially when the AC went on or someone coughed...
 
Placement....

Harvey, I had thought that small condensers placed about 20% back into the room in a sterio pair configuration would do best. Why the wide spacing?

Most of the classical organ that I listen to was composed to take room delays into consideration (reverb in a large chapel exceeds 12 seconds with 6 being more common).

With a large sound stage and alternating notes on opposit sides of the organ a wide placement would exagerate the L-R position of lower notes. the pedals are on the outsides with higher notes to the center.

On a side note RE electronic vs tracker action pipe - is like comparing digital to analog. In a tracker action organ all sounds contribute to the performance. As the key is depressed the trackers and stickers come under tension and compression causing a variable delay in action that adds to the performance. As the wind valve starts to open you may hear the pink noise of wind entering the keyway and progressing along the wind chest. As the selected stops receive this "blast" of air (keys break away as the air preassure keeping the valve closed release) the pipe sounds. First is air sounds, then (depending onthe stop selected) there is chif which is a sounding an octave about the pipes note then the pipe sounds its note. Electronic organs try to mimic these sounds and have become quite good at it. And yet there is still the problem of matching the sheer volume of energy that an organ can produce. The sound output of the 32' pedal diapasion needs to equal the sound volume of the entire rest of the organ. And the 32 Hz note is not really heard but rather resonated the cavities in your body. We are talking about pipes that are 32 feet long and 28" in diameter that take up to 300 cu ft a minute of air. This is real power. (ah, I'm talking too much!)

Thanks, Ethan
 
evm1024 said:
Harvey, I had thought that small condensers placed about 20% back into the room in a sterio pair configuration would do best. Why the wide spacing?

Most of the classical organ that I listen to was composed to take room delays into consideration (reverb in a large chapel exceeds 12 seconds with 6 being more common).

With a large sound stage and alternating notes on opposit sides of the organ a wide placement would exagerate the L-R position of lower notes. the pedals are on the outsides with higher notes to the center.

Thanks, Ethan
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Yes, no, kinda, maybe, it depends.

My favorite positions in the organ room are maybe 1/3rd of the room back from the pipes, with the two mics dividing the width into 1/3rds. That's where I usually start from. Moving much further back usually just adds more reverberation, in closer and you lose some of the majesty. Somewhere between 33% and 20% will make the organ "snap into focus".

I adjust the width between mics to taste, once I have the "mic to organ distance" pegged. It usually works out to 1/3rds - I don't know exactly why. It may just hafta do with the particular organs and halls I've recorded in (not all that many).
 
I usually just go with a 57 close-miced ... against the grille.

It seems to work just about every time I record a pipe organ. Which is almost like daily. Usually, it's just a given that someone's going to want a pipe organ track.
 
Hmm...I'll have to try that some time! I usually just hang SM57's down into each of the pipes (down to roughly the middle of the pipe), except on some of those smaller pipes I have to switch over to SM81's so they'll fit.
 
sile2001 said:
Hmm...I'll have to try that some time! I usually just hang SM57's down into each of the pipes (down to roughly the middle of the pipe), except on some of those smaller pipes I have to switch over to SM81's so they'll fit.
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The funniest post I've read today.
 
sile2001 said:
Hmm...I'll have to try that some time! I usually just hang SM57's down into each of the pipes (down to roughly the middle of the pipe), except on some of those smaller pipes I have to switch over to SM81's so they'll fit.
Click to expand...


I've tried going DI on the pipe organ before, but it just wasn't the same.

You really need to get the sound of the orgain "pushing some air."

I would assume your technique would be great for that. Imagine the air you could capture that way.
 
chessrock said:
I've tried going DI on the pipe organ before, but it just wasn't the same.

You really need to get the sound of the orgain "pushing some air."

I would assume your technique would be great for that. Imagine the air you could capture that way.
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It really has worked out well! The only problem I've run into is on those pipes where the mic just barely fits inside. Whenever the organist plays those notes, the mics have a tendency to get blown up out of the pipe. My solution thus far has been to set ladders up alongside the pipes have the organist's page turner climb up and catch the mics before they land, and reposition them back in the pipe and the run back before the organist reaches the end of the page. It does get mildly amusing when the organist plays a trill on higher notes...
 
learning the list...

I'm seeing that there is some learning I need to do on the "Style" of this list.

I've never tried Micing inside the pipe. I'll have to give that a try. You mic budget must be execelent. The last organ I recorded was a mid sized Flemtrop with 3 manuals, pedals and about 5000 pipes.

So how did you get the mics inside the closed pipes?

--Ethan

I never mic up next to the grill as that the heat tends to melt the mics.
 
chessrock said:
I've tried going DI on the pipe organ before, but it just wasn't the same.

You really need to get the sound of the orgain "pushing some air."

I would assume your technique would be great for that. Imagine the air you could capture that way.
Click to expand...

I think that a pipe organ cannot be DI recorded. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. I have never seen a 1/4" output jack on any pipe organ. You would have to mic the organ in a room. I am open to learning any recording techniques though.
 
chessrock said:
Well, the ones at Samash and Guitar Center sure do.
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Interesting, my GC doesn't have pipe organs at all in stock or on the floor. I think they are too big for their pro audio room. I could be wrong, but I think Samash would not have the room either. I thought pipe organs use pipes for the sound? How would a line out work for this?


I guess I will have to go ask a GC salesman as I have much to learn and I have been to Harmony Central almost everyday for the past 3 months.

This is a great BBS! I learn something everyday, I will run over to GC tonight and ask. Maybe the just don't keep pipe organs in stock and you have to order them.
 
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