Best all-around 1" 8-track (excluding Studer)

  • Thread starter Thread starter lo.fi.love
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Just posting a follow-up to this thread:

I recently replaced the dbx 150x units that I used with my Tascam 48 with two Tascam DX-4D units. Somehow, it feels like this has made a noticeable difference in how my recordings are coming out.

I'm also using AGFA PEM468 for tracking these days. I think that PEM468 with dbx NR is a winning combination on my Tascam 48. The quality is quite astonishing.

So, I've been wondering about what I could gain from switching to a wider track format. My experience with the Tascam 48 is that bass tones can be kind of tricky, and some amount of EQing is necessary to keep them sounding full, thick and rich during recording and in playback. Is this one area in which switching to a 1" 8 track might help? Somehow I'm assuming that the wider track width means better bass response, but that's an amateur guess.

Since I have no experience with wider track formats, I'm wondering if anyone here can explain to me what benefits there might be of "upgrading" to a wider format. The first one I can think of is that if I use a high-output tape like ATR, 499, GP9, or 900 that I won't need noise reduction. Anything else?

Thanks a lot - I really appreciate everyone's insights!
 
Jeff, wish I had more conclusive information to share but don't yet with the MM-1000 not up and running yet.

Frequency response is such a complicated thing and has so much to do with the head design, so its not a given that wider track = better LF response. I realize you weren't assuming it *was* a given, just underscoring that fact.

What my ears have heard from recordings done on wide track format is more air...more space in the mix...just bigger sounding. There's more oxide to catch what comes through the record head from the record amp so its bound to handle transients with more resilience and what the translates to I don't know, but it has to count for something. remember though that a 1 inch 8 track with poorly designed heads will sound that way: poor. Too bad there isn't some A/B test out there on a transport tracking with 1 inch 8 track heads and then switching to 1/2 inch 8 track or 1 inch 16 track using the same source material, tape type and on the same machine/transport/amp electronics. the MX-70 would be a prime candidate for this. It would allow us to more lisyen for differences that are isolated to track format and better take the transport and amp electronics out of the equation.

My gut says (based on logic and what I've heard) that the wide format does a better job taking what you throw at it. Electronics with high headroom matter to a good reserve power in the supply design matters. I think that's why I like the Ampex 440/MM-1000 stuff...beefy power supplies relatively speaking and higher voltage at that. Clipping on the 440/MM-1000 electronics modules occurs at +29dBu...the electronics surely won't be distorting before the tape even on sharp transients. None of this matters though if the head design stinks.

Too bad Tascam didn't make wide format 8 track in the ATR60 or ATR80 series. Look at cjacek's ATR60-4HS...wide format 4-track...that's a very nice transport, and those heads are gorgeous...taken after the Ampex ATR-100 design.

Regarding your original question, I still put my money on my MM-1000, and sure I'm biased. I mean, just look at the practical side. It has so many other uses...Construction scaffolding...battering ram...I've got some gear reducers...betcha I could rig up a way to mobilize the MM-1000, driving the wheels off any of the motors. Think of the possibilities being able to just drive the MM-1000 itself to a location recording gig.

BTW, yes, one of the great advantages of tape such as 499, SM-900, GP9, ATR is effectively a lower noise floor since the tape will tolerate higher levels before distorting, so it reduces the need for noise reduction. Can't imagine needing noise reduction on my BR-20T using SM-900 based on recent toying with it.

You may be able to properly bias +9 tape on the 48...have you tried tracking without n/r on +6 tape?
 
lo.fi.love said:
Since I have no experience with wider track formats, I'm wondering if anyone here can explain to me what benefits there might be of "upgrading" to a wider format. The first one I can think of is that if I use a high-output tape like ATR, 499, GP9, or 900 that I won't need noise reduction. Anything else?
Click to expand...

I guess my basic summary would be that my 1" machine sounded better in certain ways, but my current 1/2" machine gets the recording job done pretty well, too.

I didn't use NR on my 3M M-56 1" 8-track and I don't use it on my Otari 1/2" 8-track, and I only calibrated the M-56 at +6. The difference is that with the M-56, hiss was a complete non-issue, while with the Otari, it's a challenge to keep the hiss from being a problem on quieter music. Of course, your tolerance of hiss may be different from mine.

Obviously, you will get about 3 dB of S/N increase just from track width. Wide track machines also tend to include the option to run at 30 ips, and if you run at that speed you usually get another 2 or 3 dB over 15 ips.

As far as the low end, it's really machine specific. The M-56 was a good bit smoother than the Otari (the bumps and dips were smaller). Of course, if you run at 30 ips, you will generally move the low end roll off up about an octave. The plots on Jack Endino's website indicate that the older multi-track Ampexes and the MCIs have low end response that is just about as squirrelly as my Otari 1/2" machine, though I'm sure they still have a great sound overall.

I continue to be amazed at how basically good and solid the Otari 1/2" machine is. For my tracking purposes (all in one room), it also has some key practical advantages, the most important being the quietness of the transport (the M-79s aren't too bad, but the older 3Ms have loud capstan motors) and its much smaller size and weight.

I hope that helps.

Otto
 
Yeah...noise...my MM-1000 sounds like a warn winch. Hey! That's *another* use for the MM-1000...betcha I could lock the wheels and use the capstan shaft to pull jeeps out of the bog...
 
Otari MX-70 price

I'm curious to know what a Otari MX-70 8-track should go for, in decent condition.

My guess is $1,500. Anyone have an opinion?
 
Jehhhhhhhhhhffff...didja find one??

Really all depends on the condition and the heads. If it is relatively ready to roll and the heads are good I don't think $1500 would be an unreasonable sum...
 
sweetbeats said:
Jehhhhhhhhhhffff...didja find one??
Click to expand...

Cooooooooorrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiieeeeee..... No, I didn't :) It's just been on my mind lately. I don't have this kind of cash laying around but I've been thinking about ways that I can simplify and improve my sound.

I also dropped off my Otari 1/4" half track machine at the local tech's shop yesterday, and we chatted a bit about tape decks and about 1-inch 8-tracks in particular. According to him, the MCI machines and Ampex machines typically require a good deal more maintenance than Otaris. He said, "MCI JH110-C if you want a Chevy, Otari MX-70 if you want a Lexus" :)

Really all depends on the condition and the heads. If it is relatively ready to roll and the heads are good I don't think $1500 would be an unreasonable sum...
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input!
 
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