behringer c-2

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tojo

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Hi i'm looking for some feed back about the behringer c-2s... a cheap matched pair of condensers. If anyone's used them.. what do you think? Also if you know of other cheap pencil condensers (matched pairs, of course) could you let me know. I've actually heard that these condensers work as drum overheads, on amps, acoustic guitars etc.

C-2_medium.jpg


sorry if the picture is ginormous.

and can anybody explain what those switches do... the site says "low frequency roll-off and -10 dB input attenuation"... what exactly does that mean? A way to eliminate low frequencies (i.e. a boomy acoustic guitar?)
 
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I'm planning on buying and using them on my drum O/H's.....in stereo.
I'm hoping the small diaphram design will be 'looking more for' the higher end frequencies, rather than the lower end.(kick..etc).
I'm currently using a (1) large diaphram condensor as an O/H and it's a bit tricky.
 
when you say in stereo do you mean like put them over the cymbals and pan hard left and hard right? and then when you record it goes down to one track on your software or two tracks? How would you so not in stereo-- just don't pan them and mix them down to one track? Sorry I'm getting of the topic but this might as well provide me with some clarifying answers about stereo if you can help me... you see always wonder about making a stereo track on software vs a mono track... the stereo track on software displays two parallel wave forms as you record. Do you have to say pan hard left and right on a mixer and then it gets mixed down to one stereo track, and one represents the pan left and the other pan right?

or... are the two waveforms just the waveforms of the two mics?

sorry about the stupid questions and completely changing the thread (which i created haha)

so do let me know how they sound on drums... my friend told me he can pick up his full set including kick using them as overheads... they just have to be positioned behind the actual drummer i think.
 
Hi Tojo,, yes, that is what I mean...They would be connected to my desk and panned hard L/R and given their own track/channel each....
When recorded I would then play with the stereo panning to help give me a 'field' or 'tone'....whatever sounds good in totality. (within the rest of the drum mix).
If, on the other hand you aren't after a stereo image with your o/h's, then you would simply assign both chanels to one track on your recorder, but if you have the extra track, would be more versatile...(you can always bounce or mix to mono later, at your discretion.)

As far as o/h positioning is concerned, that is simply to your own personal taste/requirements.

At the moment, (and don't laugh!!), I am using one large mofo condensor hanging over the kit, infront of the kit and placed some 6 feet high. This is assigned to ONE stereo track (dual mono!!) and I then do something a little crazy.....and that is I give the the left chanel of this track just 20-40ms of delay!!....This gives me a 'fake' stereo image that seems to actually gives my drum mixes a little more life.

Here is an example(s) where I've used this method, see if you like. (1 'fake-stereo' overhead condensor, with other dynamics ofcourse)


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=742373&songID=6666559

(Do press the HI-FI version so as to hear the kit properly!!) .....fuk, I hate the MP3 format!

I'm sure using 2 o'heads will make them (cymbals and kit) sound a lot better.

Cheers.
 
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ohhhhh I think I understand. I certainly didn't laugh about your condenser setup on your drum kit, as I have done that too (actually got a decent sound)

So when your using your multi track software, and record to a 'stereo track' but only have one signal... it double the mono signal? Then, you can actually add effects (reverb) to just one of those signals? Or did you split them....

I suppose you could just record it as mono, duplicate as a new track and add reverb to the second one..
 
tojo said:
ohhhhh I think I understand. I certainly didn't laugh about your condenser setup on your drum kit, as I have done that too (actually got a decent sound)

So when your using your multi track software, and record to a 'stereo track' but only have one signal... it double the mono signal? Then, you can actually add effects (reverb) to just one of those signals? Or did you split them....

I suppose you could just record it as mono, duplicate as a new track and add reverb to the second one..
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haha...yeah, it's cool man, laugh away, I tend not to follow too many rules, just the fundamentals.....and my ears.:):)

But as you know, you can't create stereo from mono, not in the real sense anyway.

oh!...big PS!!....I am only talking about O/Head micing here. ie: I always have used this in conjunction with another 7 dynamic mics!! (just in-case someone thought I was only using the one mic!!...nah, you didn't?..did you?)

Once you have your double mono track or 2 separate mono tracks (duplicated), then you can effect away (delay on 1 side or track, only on the one side, to get the 'stereo' or wider effect I talked about earlier)

...see how it goes, and see if you like the quality of that method on the tracks I linked earlier.
 
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haha! oh, I thought you actually only had 1 mic on your whole kit (which I have done sadly) As I only have one condenser. When i listened to a bit of your song, I was thinking: "how in the world did you get a sound like that with one mic?!" haha sorry about the misunderstanding.

Anyways, you were saying you can apply an effect to one side of a stereo track? what recording program do you use?
 
tojo said:
Hi i'm looking for some feed back about the behringer c-2s... a cheap matched pair of condensers. If anyone's used them.. what do you think? Also if you know of other cheap pencil condensers (matched pairs, of course) could you let me know. I've actually heard that these condensers work as drum overheads, on amps, acoustic guitars etc.

C-2_medium.jpg


sorry if the picture is ginormous.

and can anybody explain what those switches do... the site says "low frequency roll-off and -10 dB input attenuation"... what exactly does that mean? A way to eliminate low frequencies (i.e. a boomy acoustic guitar?)
Click to expand...

The C2s are very cheap, and excellent value for the price. They are a good alternative to SM57, specially in live situations, and specially with acoustic instruments. Curiously (and I have mentioned this in another post somewhere else) a C2 delivered an awesome upright bass sound.

However, they don't appear to be as sensitive as other condensors. This is handy for live stuff where they behave a bit like dynamics, but I'm not certain how great they would be for other than close-miking work. However, at their price, you might as well try them for drum overheads or similar.

Low frequency roll-of means that it progressively stops low end frequencies from entering the signal path. This is handy if you want to keep truck noiese and other rumbles out.

The attentuation is pad that reduces the overall level of signal going through, handy if you have an extremely loud source.
 
You can use them live? are condensers usually used live? Wouldn't they pick up the sound from the pa and then cause feedback? I guess, like you said , that they seem to be as sensitive then i guess it could work. when you say "the attentuation is a pad..." do you mean the switch that says " -10 db" ? It just decreases the sound by 10 db? .... and also the word for something like that is a "pad" ?

sorry about all the questions, but I figure I need ot learn these things
 
tojo said:
You can use them live? are condensers usually used live? Wouldn't they pick up the sound from the pa and then cause feedback? I guess, like you said , that they seem to be as sensitive then i guess it could work. when you say "the attentuation is a pad..." do you mean the switch that says " -10 db" ? It just decreases the sound by 10 db? .... and also the word for something like that is a "pad" ?
Click to expand...

A pickup pattern is a pickup pattern. If you have a cardioid mic, whether condenser or dynamic, with the same basic response curve, the feedback potential should be very similar (except perhaps in the extreme high end because of faster transient response on the condenser).
 
so a pickup patter is just the way the microphone takes in the sound (hence the name i guess)... apart from that dumb question... i mean, a condenser is more sensitive so its more prone to feedback than a dynamic mic regardless of pickup pattern right? or is it the pick up pattern that determines the sensitivity.

when it comes to technica specification of mics, i don't know much.
 
tojo said:
so a pickup patter is just the way the microphone takes in the sound (hence the name i guess)... apart from that dumb question... i mean, a condenser is more sensitive so its more prone to feedback than a dynamic mic regardless of pickup pattern right? or is it the pick up pattern that determines the sensitivity.
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A pickup pattern tells you the directions from which a microphone is most and least sensitive. You can have an omnidirectional mic that picks up signals (approximately) equally from all directions, a bidirectional or figure-eight mic that picks up primarily from two directions, a cardioid (heart-shaped pattern) mic that mainly picks up sound from one direction, etc.

A condenser is more sensitive, but that doesn't necessarily mean it is more sensitive to feedback. It means it outputs a louder signal. If you swap a condenser in place of a dynamic, yeah, you're going to get a heck of a lot more feedback, but that's because you need to also turn down the level.... :)

All things being equal, condenser vs dynamic doesn't matter much. All things are rarely equal, though. Many dynamic mics (particularly mics designed primarily for live sound reinforcement like the SM57/58) have frequency response curves tailored to reduce feedback. That's not the case for most condensers, though there are exceptions.
 
ah i see, thank you for clarifying. I'm not sure if you covered this though, but condensers pick up more sound? generally, because of the phantom power...

although you could just boost the gain on a dynamic a lot, but if you boosted the same amount with a condenser on the same mixer it would be even louder.

i guess it doesn't really matter, as the condenser i have; i know it is more sensitive and can pick up sound from farther away.

ah well, thanks for explaining... sorry about the dumb questions...
 
Some Behris are good, some aren't.
I have a C1 and it's quite good. Being that you're going condensor & therefore preamp have you considered any Naiant mics? CHEAP and GOOD - more so of both than Behri I think.
 
tojo said:
ah i see, thank you for clarifying. I'm not sure if you covered this though, but condensers pick up more sound? generally, because of the phantom power...
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Generally, yes. Which really just means you need to set the gain lower to get the same output level.

Feedback is made better or worse by changing how loud the desired source is relative to the loudness of the feedback source (speaker). Changing the distance to the speakers makes a difference. Changing the pickup pattern so that the speaker's sound points at part of the mic that is less sensitive helps. Changing the frequency response so that the frequency of the feedback is not as strong helps in essentially the same way.

Changing the overall sensitivity of the mic, however, makes no difference in feedback. If you increase the sensitivity by a factor of two, both the performer and the speaker got louder by a factor of two; the relationship between the volume levels is preserved, so there's no difference in the amount of feedback you would get. You lower the gain so the volume of the performer is the same as it was before and the level of signal coming from the feedback source is also the same as it was before.
 
alright thanks i understand now..

and no i haven't though of naiant... they seem pretty underground in comparison to a mass company like behringer. I think i'll just try for the c-2s because they're available locally
 
Do a search of naiant in the mic forum and you'll find a lot of info. Go Behri by all means but don't dismiss the naiant as underground - do a little research - they arrive quite quickly by post.
 
Apex 185s. They come with swappable capsules (omni or cardiod) and shockmounts for under 200. I'm not sure, but they appear to be a rebranded MXL 903s (?) and are surprisingly good for the price. I own a bunch of the naiant XQs which are really good, too.
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i use em

I use those guys for my acoustic guitar recording and for drum overheads, they actually work great for me. Definately one of behringers better products i trust these alot and i would recommend them especially for the price.
 
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