Beginner here...

[esun127]

I'm new to this and am hoping some of you guys and steer me in the right direction.

Basically I just want to record some stuff with my band (2 guitars, 2 vocals, bass, drums). I looked into the standalone units, particularly the korg d1200 and d1600 models, but have conluded that it would be lot more convenient and less expensive to just use my pc.

This is my rough plan... let me know what you think.

I like the interface of Cakewalk Sonar 2.0 and will probably get that off ebay. Can you record while playing back all the previous tracks like with stand-alone digital recorders? I just downloaded the demo but haven't had time to really figure it out.

What kind of hardware is good for this type of stuff? I have a cheapo sound blaster sound card right now. I'm thinking of getting something like the M-Audio Delta 1010, which goes for $599. I don't think I'd want to pay more than $600. How well does it work with windows XP and would I need a better soundcard? It looks real simple and that's what I like. The mics will go through a large Behringer mixer so I don't really need phantom powered XLRs.

Thanks for any input and suggestions.

 

[Slackmaster2K]

Can you record while playing back all the previous tracks like with stand-alone digital recorders?

Yes, all software will do this. Requires a full duplex soundcard which includes just about every soundcard made after say 1995.

What kind of hardware is good for this type of stuff? I have a cheapo sound blaster sound card right now. I'm thinking of getting something like the M-Audio Delta 1010, which goes for $599.

The Delta series is popular here. I had a Delta44 for a while and now have a Delta1010. It's pretty good, I like it. Sound is much better than consumer grade soundcards.

think I'd want to pay more than $600.

Somebody just posted a link to a sale on the Delta1010...scroll down in the forum.

How well does it work with windows XP and would I need a better soundcard?

Should work fine. I use it on 2K without any serious issues. Drivers are updated somewhat frequently and occassionaly we find problems with them...so far all problems have had reasonable workarounds, although still a pain. I think you will find similar problems with many of the systems out there.

It looks real simple and that's what I like.

Nothing on the PC is simple. Over the next few months you will find yourself getting much more involved with your machine than you ever wanted to be. Expect problems, especially at the start while you're still learning.

The mics will go through a large Behringer mixer so I don't really need phantom powered XLRs.

If you want to record each microphone/instrument to its own channel, which is of course desirable and one of the reasons for getting a soundcard with 8 inputs, then you'll need the appropriate outputs on your mixer...channel inserts can work for isolating preamps in some cases.

Slackmaster 2000

 

[esun127]

Thanks a lot, Slackmaster.

I just did a search on ebay and it looks like the 1010 can easily be had for under $500. Do you use Sonar with your Delta? How's the compatability between the two?

Also, how would I go about plugging in my normal speakers (1/8 jack output)? Would I just keep my old sound card in there? Finally, how would I connect studio monitors? Thanks again.

 

[Slackmaster2K]

Do you use Sonar with your Delta? How's the compatability between the two?

No, but Sonar uses WDM and the delta has WDM drivers. In theory it should be just fine.

Also, how would I go about plugging in my normal speakers (1/8 jack output)? Would I just keep my old sound card in there? Finally, how would I connect studio monitors? Thanks again.

Lots of people overlook this one. You have to ditch your computer speakers...or you should. All of the outputs of the Delta are line level (this will be true of any multi i/o soundcard).

Monitors come in two flavors...active and passive. Passive monitors are just speakers, and have to be combined with a power amp. Active monitors are speakers with built a built in power amplifier(s).

Either way, you get your sound by taking a line out of the delta into something that will act as a line preamp - a mixer might suffice. Then you plug the preamp (mixer) into the power amp or directly into active monitors.

The "preamp" stage does confuse people a bit. The reason you need it is that you need an analog means of controlling volume. Adjusting volume digitally (via the soundcard control panel) kills the sound, and can be dangerous if a program hijacks your soundcard's volume setting (e.g. sets it to 0db and blam, too much sound!). So basically you'll be taking the full strength signal out from the delta (line level) and plug it into something that'll allow you to control the amount of level that goes to the power amp. A mixer would probably suffice, but I'm not sure how it would work if you're also using it for inputs. You can also buy line level preamps...not sure how much they cost.

Right now I'm running my Delta out to an NAD integrated stereo amplifier which is driving my Event 20/20 passives. Soon I'll be purchasing a hafler power amp, and luckily my NAD has a preamp output, such that I'll still be able to use it to control volume (bypassing its own internal power stage and routing out to the hafler).

Slackmaster 2000

 

[Bigus Dickus]

A good choice for amplification of monitors would be a decent (depending on your budget... up to high quality if you wish) integrated amplifier.

Many good manufacturers make these, and it is just what it sounds like. A Preamp and amplifier (stereo usually) integrated into a single chassis.

Power amp with a volume knob in other words.

 

[esun127]

Hmmm... what is the spdif output good for? Can that be connected to a home theater receiver?

How much do integrated amps cost?

 

[Bigus Dickus]

Hmmm... what is the spdif output good for? Can that be connected to a home theater receiver?

If the soundcard multiplexes with the digital out, then yes, you should be able to monitor using the digital output plugged into a home receiver.

How much do integrated amps cost?

Just an example. I'm guessing this one will go for around $200.

There are integrated amps from just about everyone... From Krell, Bryston, and McIntosh, to Denon, ADCOM, NAD, Rotel, Marantz, even Sony, Kenwood, etc. Something in just about any price range.

 

[Slackmaster2K]

SPDIF is a digital connection. If you have SPDIF out it can go to SPDIF in.

The problem with an integrated amp is that you're basically looking in the "hifi" market. Ironically, the fact that these amps are designed to sound good is exactly why they are of less benefit for recording. Plus, most modern integrated amps are only rated at 8 ohms and may not be able to properly drive 4 ohm speakers (as many nearfield monitors are). They are a potential solution though...it's what I've been using for a while. The more traditional approach is to take a line directly out of the board into a reference amp (a flat-response power amp) which drives your monitors.

It's probably possible to do what you want with your board and a power amp, but you didn't say what kind of board you have. You might have to ask someone who knows what it's capable of. Examples of a cheap but respectable power amp would be either Hafler's TA-1100 or TA-1600. (< $200)

If you're going to buy an amp and monitors at the same time, it might be beneficial to just buy active monitors.

Slackmaster 2000

 

[esun127]

Thanks guys. You pretty much answered all of my questions.

I haven't gotten the mixer yet, but I'm planning on getting the Behringer urodesk MX2442A, which is a 24 channel, 4-bus board. I want to use the mic preamps/phantom power for the vocals and drums. I guess I'll just input those into two separate buses and into the Delta, then the outputs of the delta will go back into the mixer and to active monitors. Will this work okay?