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Flambo

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Hi,

I have been playing for years but have decided to take the plunge and record. I have a lenovo thinkpad which is fairly high spec and manages most things I throw at it. I have only 1.5 stereo Jack or USB inputs. I have sony Sound forge audio 9 and would like to give some basic recording a go to try to get some idea for the track sounds I would like. I have no clue what to put between the guitar and laptop. Any time I ahev tried to record directly to the laptop I get a phasey effect. I am happy enough to but a cheap second hand "eqaulizer" just to get me started. I will probably end up investing in a mac and the usual software, when I have picked up some experience on my current laptop. Can anybody advise what I should put between the Guitar and Laptop to recordinga clean sound. The Jack is a stereo 1.5, will it be of to step down a mono into a stereo?. Your help is appreciated.
 
You need an interface of some kind. Are you going to be recording any more than the guitar at some point? There are cheap up to expensive options.

Cheap would be something like the Line 6 Guitarport, a USB device that will allow you to input the guitar (and give you a lot of effects, etc). These are available for $100.00

Next step up would be a USB Interface that has guitar and mic (XLR) inputs.
There are many different ones out there.

Next, final step up would be a Firewire interface.

Read some of the help articles here, they should make it easier for you to figure out your next step(s).
 
OK- I will try to break down your question to its fundamental components. I will presume you mean an electric guitar, but the signal chain for an acoustic is not that different. There are 2 commonly used ways to do it:

Plan A- This is the one recommended by most experienced audio engineers:

guitar > amp (usually a smaller one than is used for most stage work) > one or more microphones (a stage dynamic such as a Shure SM57 is often used, sometimes in combination with a condenser mic) > microphone preamp (this raises the weak mic level output to line level) > A-D (analog to digital) converter (this changes your analog signal to some form of digital output that can be recognized by the computer. In the case of a laptop, this is likely to be transferred by USB, firewire, or S/PDIF) > audio software for processing (there are tons of them-soundforge, reaper, audacity, N-tracks, etc.).

Plan B- DI (direct insertion)- This is not the first choice of most engineers, but has become more popular as the technology for doing it has improved:

guitar > specialized preamp or "DI box" which changes the instrument level output to line level > A-D convertor > computer by USB, firewire, S/PDIF, AES/EBU etc. > audio software for processing.

OK- now that the specific components have been identified, we need to break it down into the actual hardware. Generally, only the big time studios with pretty deep pockets are going to have every component a top of the line separate unit. You could spend thousands on a preamp by itself, on an A-D converter, or on certain microphones. That isn't the starting point for most people in the real world. For most of us, we use devices which are less expensive, and combine several functions of the units above.

Some mic preamps have the A-D convertor built in, and provide digital output. Mixers are really just a bunch of preamps with multiple signal routing options. Some of those have digital output also, but most don't. An audio interface, which is commonly used, is basically one or more preamps with a built in A-D convertor, and usually a built in DI box for direct instrument input. The specialized preamps I mentioned above usually contain guitar amplifier modelers, which use digital processing to simulate the sound of certain amp and cabinet combinations, and contain digital effects as well, such as reverb, delay, flange, compression, etc. Many of those also have an onboard A-D convertor, and provide digital output. In some cases, a DI box or audio interface is used, and the amp simulation/effects are generated in the computer by software, such as amp farm or amplitude.

Now that we have defined the parameters, what are the advantages and disadvantages of the various options?

Plan A has the advantage of being similar to the system used for recording guitars for 50+ years. We have become used to the sound of air pushed by a speaker hitting a microphone, and it is the most straightforward way to translate the amp sound you know you like to a recording. The biggest problems are that a cranked up amp makes a lot of noise, and learning where to place that microphone to get the sound you want can be a major pain.

Plan B has the advantage of being quieter, and more portable, and allows you to dial in many different sounds, including vintage amps you don't own and probably can't afford. Its other main advantage is that it deals the room out of the equation, so you can do it in a room with poor acoustic properties and lots of background (ambient) noise, which tend to be picked up by microphones. The main disadvantages are that finding the right settings to get the sound you want is a pain, and it simply doesn't move air that smacks a microphone. When done well, direct recording can work, and a lot of commercial tracks have been done that way. Critics of it, and there are many, will tell you it produces a dry digital sound which does not compare to a cranked up, mic'd up tube amp. Another variation on the DI approach is to send a line out from the amp (assuming it has one) directly to the preamp or interface, so in other words, the amp has a built in DI box.

The quality of sound you get in the end is a factor of the quality of the instrument, how well it is played, the room (if mics are used), the quality of the preamps, the quality of the A-D convertor, and how well all that equipment is used.

When choosing the actual hardware, aside from your budget, you need to determine not just what your present needs are, but what your future needs will be. If you get a simple DI guitar rig, you may decide later that you want to record vocals, or drums, or whatever. Then you need mic inputs with multiple channels of preamps. Also, the number of channels you can simultaneously record and process is a function of what kind of inputs and processing power the computer has. For more than 2 simultaneous channels, firewire is usually used, and for 1 or 2, it is usually USB. Sometimes a mixer is used to pre-mix or sum a bunch of inputs, usually multiple drum mics, which are then sent to the interface as a single signal. This gets you more inputs, but you can't change the mix afterwards or process the individual signals separately later.

You also have to take into account how you will hear the music, first when you are playing it, and later, when you are playing it back. For pure DI, you'll need to listen through headphones, and for playback, most interfaces have an output for powered studio monitors, which are not unlike powered computer speakers, but more accurate, and can be pricey as hell.

Alright, I've thrown out the concepts, now it is time to get down to actual hardware. I'm not even going to talk about expensive component rigs. If you were ready to spend thousands on this stuff, you would have asked a different question in a different forum.

mics- The one most commonly used is a classic standard stage mic:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=1361&Category=Microphones

I happen to prefer this, but that's just me:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=3202&Category=Microphones

Simple USB interfaces: There are bizzillions, but these 2 are used by a lot of satisfied customers. Both allow you to use mics or direct instrument input. The Line 6 unit is a little specialized for guitar, and includes amp modeling and effects:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=60669&Category=Audio_Interfaces

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=40819&Category=Audio_Interfaces

OK, you just want a simple guitar interface? This is cheaper, but doesn't do microphones,and has limited monitoring options. so is much less versatile:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=22562&Category=Audio_Interfaces

Need a bunch of channels for future options? Consider:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=32675&Category=Audio_Interfaces

Want to add a mixer for drums, etc.?:

http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/single.php?product=S16

Headphones- I like these:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=10952&Category=Monitoring

More advanced amp modelers with digital output:

Cheap and effective:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=20204&Category=Guitar_Effects

Not so cheap, but an industry standard:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=22256&Category=Guitar_Effects


In conclusion, if you want my best choice for your needs, I would probably get a Shure SM57 and a short boom stand, a line 6 UX2, and a pair of Sennheiser HD280 headphones. That will allow you to try mic'ing guitars, DI recording, and amp modeling in a simple USB powered format.

Best of luck. Hope all that helps.-Richie
 
Thanks but One more thing

Hi,

Sorry I shoul dhave said accoustic gyuitar. I really am looking to record vocals and accoustic guitar. This is really to get my ideas down and get some practice in before I go the whole hog on a mac. So Vocals and Guitar. Very basic. I will take your advice and read the help guide but as a self thought musician I find it hard to read long enough past mostintructions whcih I know is counter productive. I really appreciate your advice and know I have to take the plunge. I was hoping to avoid major costs and would be happy to by an "inexpensive" piece of equipment to get me through the begining. I dont get why A Direct line in doesn't work butr it doesn't on my machine. So what you seem to be saying it that I need a processor that will change the signal to a digital signal and then record that digital track. i undertsand for little money I'm not going to be able to get an all singing all dancing piece of kit but I'm not looking to record my dark side of the moon, not yet anyway. So although a reasonably experienced musician I am a recording newbie as it is put. Once again thanks for your input I will do my best to read. It's a really excellent site.
 
Right, for a start, forget the whole Mac idea... I think this is distracting you at the moment!
You said it yourself - you already have a fairly high spec laptop.
What do you expect to achieve on a Mac that you can't with your current laptop?


I'd recommend getting yourself a nice little USB interface (maybe one of the M-audio offerings) with at least 2 preamps built in. Most entry level interfaces come bundled with a DAW in some form or another (usually a cut-down version, but perfectly adequate to get you started), or you could try something like Reaper. Find an affordable pair of small diphraghm condensers to go with it, and then you have everything you need to get going.


Take a browse through some of Tweak's guides.
His studio rigs pages are quite good to give you an idea of the ways you can combine gear in different setups...
http://www.tweakheadz.com/rigs.htm
 
OK- Everything I said above applies to acoustic guitar, with a few minor modifications.

One- you can't record voice direct. Obviously you need a vocal mic. The Sennheiser e835 I mentioned above isn't bad for starters.

When recording acoustic, you can go by direct insertion (also known as direct injection) but it tends to suck, as acoustic guitar pickup technology is not as advanced as amp modeling technology. This simply requires microphones, and small diaphragm condenser mics are often the weapon of choice. The downside is that they *will* pick up background noise and the sound of a bad room. For cheap, I like this:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=40355&Category=Microphones

For less cheap, I like this, and unlike the MXL604 above, it's a pretty good vocal mic:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=24183&Category=Microphones

For the record, I'm not a fan of MXL990, the AKG Perception series, or Audio-Technica AT2020, although the AT30XX and 40XX series are all pretty good mics.

For acoustic, you don't need amp modeling, but the Line 6 UX2 is still a pretty good interface, and I would still recommend it. Besides that, there are some acoustic guitar simulations in there that might be semi-OK with the pickup on your acoustic.

And lastly- you don't get why you can't just plug into your computer- A couple of reasons:

One-The mic input on a standard computer sound card is made for a stupid computer mic, not a real mic with standard mic level output. It has no input is designed to accept an instrument output, whether acoustic or electric, or any real microphone.

Two- That soundcard is made to reproduce clicks and beeps in games, not for audio reproduction, and costs about $2.00 to manufacture. It is frankly guaranteed to suck in all cases.

About 90% of engineers will recommend recording an electric with an amp and a mic, rather than direct. 99.99% of engineers will recommend recording an acoustic with a mic, rather than direct. 100% of engineers recommend recording vocals with a mic, because having the pickup installed in your larynx really hurts. The main issue you are going to have, aside from mic placement, is that the sound of the room is *hugely* important when mics become involved, and the more delicate the source is, the more ambient noise becomes a factor. Best of luck-Richie
 
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