miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
How/why...what's the DBX have to do with it? Do you want to compensate for what DBX does to the sound?
All I can say is, I've had one since the early '90s, not even sure why I bought it back then, and I tried it out a few times and pretty much haven't used it since.
There was a short period where "sonic enhancers" were the buzz....but they don't really fit in the mixing process, all other things being as they should. It might be OK on a single track, where you want to manipulate the phase/LF-HF EQ relationship.....but on a mix, mmmmm, I wouldn't use it....but that's just me....not to mention, it's not really a high-end piece of gear that I would want to push my final mix through.
Maybe in some live mix application it might be handy for a PA...???
sweetbeats
Reel deep thoughts...
I often use my BBE 462 as a sonic enhancer on bass tracks. When I've used it on a final mix it's been used *conservatively*...just a pinch for HF compensation in lieu of EQ if it's the show that fits.
T
The Ghost of FM
Banned
I used to use the original BBE 2002R on my stereo buss which fed my two track recorders and like sweetbeats, also used it judiciously to add a bit of top end clarity and sparkle that was difficult to achieve with conventional eq. Don't know if the 422A sounds as good as the model I used but if it sounds good to you, that's all that matters, I suppose.
Cheers!
Cheers!
C
Chilljam
transitional phase
I have one in my rack as part of the BBE Maxcom compressor. I wouldn't call it a must have unit but it definitely can manipulate the sound in a unique way so can be handy sometimes. Note that it's pretty hard to get it sounding natural and transparent unless you use it very subtly (Anything after about 10 o'clock HF or LF makes most acoustic instruments sound quite 'artificial'). It's pretty handy on loud/distorted electric guitars and very good on synths I find.
FWIW I find that BBE compressor to be very usable, especially on drums (it has a fast attack) and together with the built in sonic maximizer (which according to BBE is identical to the standalone unit) is actually very good bang for your buck.
FWIW I find that BBE compressor to be very usable, especially on drums (it has a fast attack) and together with the built in sonic maximizer (which according to BBE is identical to the standalone unit) is actually very good bang for your buck.
WhinyLittleRunt
Member
Clearly some mixed reviews here but I guess I'll find out if it does me any good. Really it was so cheap that I can't complain even if it becomes a doorstop later on. Sounds like I'd be better off running it on certain tracks rather than put the mix through it.
I'm really trying to avoid the computer as much as possible except for the final bounce to mp3 since that's the only way anyone can hear your stuff, so I've been trying to use some outboard gear on my tracks. Recently I have been playing with the Eventide Ultra Harmonizer that I'm borrowing, but even that tends to sound bright and dated. Maybe I'm just super picky and have unrealistic expectations!
I guess on the same note, I'll ask what's a good compressor for direct recorded bass guitar? I am starting to use the DBX now because I'm having major track bleed issues when it's off, and I know the DBX does compress in a way but should I try anything else in addition?
I'm really trying to avoid the computer as much as possible except for the final bounce to mp3 since that's the only way anyone can hear your stuff, so I've been trying to use some outboard gear on my tracks. Recently I have been playing with the Eventide Ultra Harmonizer that I'm borrowing, but even that tends to sound bright and dated. Maybe I'm just super picky and have unrealistic expectations!
I guess on the same note, I'll ask what's a good compressor for direct recorded bass guitar? I am starting to use the DBX now because I'm having major track bleed issues when it's off, and I know the DBX does compress in a way but should I try anything else in addition?
j.harv
@#$%
I use an old Dbx 163x on my bass tracks sometimes.It's a fairly simple comp with a single slider to adjust compression and a gain knob.I find it adds some good punch to the bass when inserted after recording.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
It's not particularly popular there either.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Certainly play around with it and see what it does for you....just be carful not to get addicted to the inital sound when using it, as it might seem like it's realy adding something great that wasn't there and fixing things...but it can totaly muck the crap out of your mix. Keep it very sutble if you use it at all.
For individual instruments, it might be a bit more handy as a LF/HF tonal balancing effect...not so much as a pure EQ.
rayc
retroreprobate
The BBE is a bit like deep fried Mars Bars - def. a sometimes food but can be delicious.
It does what it does & needs to be used very conservatively but can do a magical job on occasion.
Bass compressors - I use an old Alesis Microlimiter on occasion.
It does what it does & needs to be used very conservatively but can do a magical job on occasion.
Bass compressors - I use an old Alesis Microlimiter on occasion.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
Over in live sound world if someone asks for help with their setup and they list a Sonic Maximizer or anything similar the first thing people say is to get rid of it. It's the audio equivalent of spinners (those wheel covers that keep spinning when the car stops).
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
B
Beck
Guest
I've had the 422 since it came out and wouldn't mix without it on narrow tracks, especially with dbx. I've never been one for "magic black boxes," but the hardware sonic maximizer is as close to one as I've ever used and actually did what it claimed to do. The sonic maximizer plugin is gimmicky and not helpful in the digital world and probably more harmful if anything.
In the analog world, accentuating high frequencies without adding noise was always a concern The hardware BBE units from that era worked very well for recording. I don't have any use for the units in live situations.
Narrow track/low speed tape recording struggles with high frequencies and dbx increases head bumb frequencies, so the BBE solution fits nicely in most cases.
In the analog world, accentuating high frequencies without adding noise was always a concern The hardware BBE units from that era worked very well for recording. I don't have any use for the units in live situations.
Narrow track/low speed tape recording struggles with high frequencies and dbx increases head bumb frequencies, so the BBE solution fits nicely in most cases.
WhinyLittleRunt
Member
It was you who posted this in a thread a while back that made me think of getting one... I couldn't remember at the moment I bought it but that's shame on me for not doing my homework before posting. So I'll play around with it and see. Not the worst 40 bucks I've spent.
Cool, I'd love to grab up one of the original 163 tabletop units but they're hard to find and when you do it's $$. I've even thought of running the bass through a Dyna Comp or some sort of bass compressor pedal at the very least. Because I run the bass direct line in, I still have to boost it so I use one of those Electro Harmonix LPB-1 linear boosters which works well. But my bass playing is not consistent enough to even out the volume between strings so a compressor would be a wise choice.
B
Beck
Guest
$40.00 is a great deal. I'm like a kid in a candy store on eBay, because remember I bought most of the vintage gear I own brand new at new prices. It's fun getting these steals and knowing what to look for.
WhinyLittleRunt
Member
OK, Beck.. This one's for you...
Just got the 422 today. I want to hook it into the 388 but not on the stereo outs. I know I can't really work it in as a send effect, so how would I put this in line but be able to call it up on any channel? Or is there a way to hook it into the stereo outs and back in?
I also just snagged up a DBX 164 stereo compressor, would the same kind of hookups apply to this also since it can't really be added as an effect?
Just got the 422 today. I want to hook it into the 388 but not on the stereo outs. I know I can't really work it in as a send effect, so how would I put this in line but be able to call it up on any channel? Or is there a way to hook it into the stereo outs and back in?
I also just snagged up a DBX 164 stereo compressor, would the same kind of hookups apply to this also since it can't really be added as an effect?
B
Beck
Guest
Right, you don't want to use this with the effect send/return, but in the final stage during mixdown through the stereo outs of the 388. The best use for a Sonic Maximizer is between the multitrack and the mixdown deck. If the 388 had stereo send/receive points for the main outs that would be the best place to patch it in, but since it doesn't the stereo outs are what to use. You simply connect the stereo outputs of the 388 into the BBE. If you have the 422 with RCA and 1/4" jacks then use the RCA stereo outs of the 388 and set the switch on the 388 to Unbalanced. I you have the 422 with XLR ins/outs then use the XLR outs on the 388 and set the switch to balanced.
Now the output of the 422 is your new master output, and that goes to your mixdown machine.
The 164 compressor can be used in the send/receive points of a channel (or two) or during mixdown at the stereo outputs, same as the 422. You will need cables with RCA on one end and 1/4" plug on the other to use with the 388 send/receive points. If you use the DBX 164 at the stereo outs, put it before the Sonic Maximizer.
Be careful when doing master fades through the compressor because it will try to raise the level as you're manually lowering it. Ideally a compressor should be used at the master send/receive points of a mixer because you want the master faders on the other side of it rather than before it. But since the 388 doesn't have master send/receive points for the stereo outs your only choice is to use it at the main stereo outs. If you take care while tracking you will probably only need the compressor on individual channels while recording. You can use it on individual channels for playback as well if you find you have a wildly dynamic track or two that needs taming.
Now the output of the 422 is your new master output, and that goes to your mixdown machine.
The 164 compressor can be used in the send/receive points of a channel (or two) or during mixdown at the stereo outputs, same as the 422. You will need cables with RCA on one end and 1/4" plug on the other to use with the 388 send/receive points. If you use the DBX 164 at the stereo outs, put it before the Sonic Maximizer.
Be careful when doing master fades through the compressor because it will try to raise the level as you're manually lowering it. Ideally a compressor should be used at the master send/receive points of a mixer because you want the master faders on the other side of it rather than before it. But since the 388 doesn't have master send/receive points for the stereo outs your only choice is to use it at the main stereo outs. If you take care while tracking you will probably only need the compressor on individual channels while recording. You can use it on individual channels for playback as well if you find you have a wildly dynamic track or two that needs taming.
WhinyLittleRunt
Member
Well explained and thoroughly appreciated. Thanks for taking the time to explain it in detail, that all makes sense now.