Bass tracks...1..2 or 3?

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presto5

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Okay I have everything ready...now to get a good bass sound in a mix how many tracks do I record? Do I record a few different ones or just duplicate the track? When I listen to any CD it sounds like only one track. If it is only one, whats the best way to pan it? Thanks...:D
 
Okay I have everything ready...now to get a good bass sound in a mix how many tracks do I record? Do I record a few different ones or just duplicate the track? When I listen to any CD it sounds like only one track. If it is only one, whats the best way to pan it? Thanks...:D

While there are no wrong answers, conventionally what you're hearing is a single bass performance (sometimes as a single track, sometimes bi-amped and captured as multitple tracks) panned right down the center.

That said, that's not the only way to go - I was listening to an album of a band I was hugely into back in college, Floater's "Sink", and they have a very percussive, bass-driven textural metal sort of vibe going. I was surprised to notice (it's been forever since I've listened on 'phones) that by and large the bass was panned a bit left, and while the guitars seemed to be doubled they were definitely stronger in the right. Kick/snare was right down the center. It's not normal, but for what they were doing musically it worked.
 
rule of thumb is a single mono bass track panned dead centre.....dupication and panning left and right is normally the reserve of guitars..

you can duplicate it though and low pass filter all the high/mid frequencies on one and bring up the sub...leave this in the centre and high pass the other track boosting a little in the mid/high range and pan it just slightly left or right, say under 5%...this can sometimes work especially when the bass tone isnt "fat" enough..

mind you there is the old saying if it sounds good it is good...so experiment :)
 
you can duplicate it though and low pass filter all the high/mid frequencies on one and bring up the sub...leave this in the centre and high pass the other track boosting a little in the mid/high range and pan it just slightly left or right, say under 5%...this can sometimes work especially when the bass tone isnt "fat" enough..
:)

Sorry K, duplicating accomplishes absolutely nothing other than raising the volume of a track. You just have a louder mono track. What you described above with the EQ'ing can be accomplished by simply turning one track up and EQ'ing it.
 
How long is a piece of string ?

There are so many ways of recording bass and how it sits in a mix depends on so many variables. I mean, you could plug the bass straight into your recorder, you could go through the amp and use the line out or headphone out, you could mic the amp, you could record wet, you could record dry, you could go through a guitar amp with bizarre settings......it all depends on what you're looking for, what other instruments are in the particular song and what role the bass is playing. Does it simply shadow the chords ? Does it play a countermelody ? Does it drive ? Does it sit ? Is it the glue ? Is it meant to be smooth ? Is it growly ? Does it hold the riff if there is one ?
You could go direct and mic the amp and blend the two as you like it. I prefer to put the bass in the centre but it doesn't have to be. Keep playing around till it sounds right to you.
In England, when someone asks a question with a multiplicity of possible answers, they're sometimes met with the odd question "how long is a piece of string ?"
(An 11 year old once replied "twice as long as half !")
 
Sorry K, duplicating accomplishes absolutely nothing other than raising the volume of a track. You just have a louder mono track. What you described above with the EQ'ing can be accomplished by simply turning one track up and EQ'ing it.

I've had success in doing almost what he's advocating, usually in heavier rock music. Copy a single bass track, use one for the low end, and the second gets aggressively high passed, then gets a bit of distortion added to it and compressed like a mofo. Buss the two together, compress, and add in the second distorted track just enough to add some growl. It works well because the second track doesn't have any low end being distorted so it doesn't get muddied up.

Will that work for pop or jazz? Probably not. Will it help a bass cut through layers of distorted guitars? If done right, sure. Of course, when I do this both tracks are panned right up the middle, there's no deviation to either side.
 
Sorry K, duplicating accomplishes absolutely nothing other than raising the volume of a track. You just have a louder mono track. What you described above with the EQ'ing can be accomplished by simply turning one track up and EQ'ing it.

i dont agree, you are actually spreading the track over a wider stereo range than just having it dead centre...you can also add a bit of distortion to the second higher freq track..a technique sometimes used by dubstep and D&B producers to give the bass a bit of clout without affecting the sub frequencies and giving the punch of the kick more room alongside just sidechaining it....


i think



lol
 
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I've had success in doing almost what he's advocating, usually in heavier rock music. Copy a single bass track, use one for the low end, and the second gets aggressively high passed, then gets a bit of distortion added to it and compressed like a mofo. Buss the two together, compress, and add in the second distorted track just enough to add some growl. It works well because the second track doesn't have any low end being distorted so it doesn't get muddied up.

Will that work for pop or jazz? Probably not. Will it help a bass cut through layers of distorted guitars? If done right, sure. Of course, when I do this both tracks are panned right up the middle, there's no deviation to either side.


oops I never scrolled down...add heavier rock to dubstep and d&b ;)
 
My favorite personal tone so far was recorded to three tracks, one performance.

One Direct Signal
One Dynamic Mic right on the speaker (AKG D112)
One LDC about 5-6 feel off the cab (Ampeg 810) at about waist height. (CAD E200 I think)

I used very little EQ, no compression beyond what I use in my rig, and lightly panned the Mics with the DI in the center.

I think I ran the DI fader at 25%, The AKG at 50%, and the Room mic at 75-80%... It was a number of years go.

I little odd, but it worked. I plan on trying to duplicate that setup in week or so when i start tracking my parts on the new album.
 
i dont agree, you are actually spreading the track over a wider stereo range than just having it dead centre...you can also add a bit of distortion to the second higher freq track..a technique sometimes used by dubstep and D&B producers to give the bass a bit of clout without affecting the sub frequencies and giving the punch of the kick more room alongside just sidechaining it....


i think



lol

Sorry, you're wrong. You can't spread a mono source that's doubled. It's still just a mono source. You have to play it twice, just duplicating does absolutely nothing.

What Russtopher is talking about is different because he's talking about using compression, which turns into a "parallel" or "New York" compression technique. That's different.

Simply duplicating a track does nothing but increase the volume, period. We think it's "Punchier" because we're being fooled by the increase of volume.

This has been discussed over and over again on this boards. Duplicating a track does nothing but make it louder.
 
Sorry, you're wrong. You can't spread a mono source that's doubled. It's still just a mono source. You have to play it twice, just duplicating does absolutely nothing.

What Russtopher is talking about is different because he's talking about using compression, which turns into a "parallel" or "New York" compression technique. That's different.

Simply duplicating a track does nothing but increase the volume, period. We think it's "Punchier" because we're being fooled by the increase of volume.

This has been discussed over and over again on this boards. Duplicating a track does nothing but make it louder.


Some Dubstep and D&B producers duplicate bass tracks..the leave one with only the sub frequencies to anchor it and use a dupicate with higher frequencies and some distortion and then pan it slightly off centre...they also use a little reverb on the centre panned track sometimes alongside sidechaining..ive read the interviews, ive watched them do it

this isnt johnny blogs in the DJ hip hop forum but producers that make a very very decent living producing this style of music...

argue away the small print..


to the OP..again if it sounds good to you it is good..
 
yes Im wrong, Im totally wrong, you guys have discussed it over and over in the forums

Some Dubstep and D&B producers duplicate bass tracks..the leave one with only the sub frequencies to anchor it and use a dupicate with higher frequencies and some distortion and then pan it slightly off centre...they also use a little reverb on the centre panned track sometimes..Ive read their interviews, i watch them do it....

this isnt johnny blogs in the DJ hip hop forum but producers that make a very very decent living producing this style of music...so Im sorry if I go for what they say on this subject rather than some guys on a homerecording website that like to pound any subject into the ground..with all due respect

argue away the small print..means nowt to me


to the OP..again if it sounds good to you it is good..

LOL! Relax, man. Sorry if I don't agree with you. But it's nothing personal. maybe you need some sleep. :)

So you're saying that by simply duplicating a mono track, you can make it stereo??? Sorry....you're wrong. Pan them anywhere you want, it's still mono. EQ one all you want, it's the exact same thing as turning up just one track and doing the same EQ changes. That's a fact.

Nobody's pounding anything into the ground, I'm simply telling you you're wrong. You're pounding back, by the way. :rolleyes:
 
LOL! Relax, man. Sorry if I don't agree with you. But it's nothing personal. maybe you need some sleep. :)

So you're saying that by simply duplicating a mono track, you can make it stereo??? Sorry....you're wrong. Pan them anywhere you want, it's still mono. EQ one all you want, it's the exact same thing as turning up just one track and doing the same EQ changes. That's a fact.

Nobody's pounding anything into the ground, I'm simply telling you you're wrong. You're pounding back, by the way. :rolleyes:



hahaha sorry Rami, its actually 4 in the afternoon where I am..i edited the post as i though it was starting to read like one in the cave...no offence, just the way i talk :)

maybe Im dumb but surely if you take the same mono guitar tracks, then treat themwith a different set of effects...you, for all intents and purposes, end up with two different tracks, not just one louder one?

Isnt that what these producers are basically doing?

Ive tried it myself...its not just a louder mono bass track
 
Generally I use one mono track which is a mix of mic'd amp and DI signal. Sometimes I send it to a bus for a bit of parallel compression and grit or distortion.
 
My favorite personal tone so far was recorded to three tracks, one performance.

One Direct Signal
One Dynamic Mic right on the speaker (AKG D112)
One LDC about 5-6 feel off the cab (Ampeg 810) at about waist height. (CAD E200 I think)

I used very little EQ, no compression beyond what I use in my rig, and lightly panned the Mics with the DI in the center.

I think I ran the DI fader at 25%, The AKG at 50%, and the Room mic at 75-80%... It was a number of years go.

I little odd, but it worked. I plan on trying to duplicate that setup in week or so when i start tracking my parts on the new album.

I've been doing a variation of this recently. I have a splitter called a Y box and what I do is plug the bass into it, the two outputs go directly into my recorder (no DI box) and into my bass amp. From the bass amp, I mic one signal, and use the line out so there's three signals being recorded simultaneously. It's one performance. You'd think the line out sound was exactly the same as the mic'd amp sound but it isn't, for some reason. Then when I've finished the song, I mix and match the three bass signals and bounce them to one track. Each track could be EQ'd to taste but I do very little to them, if anything. I don't even like to use compression but that's just a personal thing, not carved in stone. But sometimes I just go direct, other times I go through two mic'd amps (one guitar, one bass) with guitar FX on the guitar amp. For me there are a variety of ways to record and mix and I like to experiment.
 
Been playing bass for 38 years and recording for 32. For me,the best way to get a usable bass track is to start with an instrument that sounds right with minimal effort--I.E. recorded direct to one track. rent or borrow one if necessary. I used to spend WAAAAY too much time on fixing the bass in the mix until I figured this out.

dj

p.s. I frequently record with basses that I don't 'play out' with. apples and oranges
 
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