bass recording

[EVT]

Hi everyone,
Always an issue to have the bass sit well in the mix. Everything sounds good and then when I punch in the bass... ugggg...
My bassplayer has an Alembic brown bass... high end.. but it sounds bad in the mix no matter what setting can't get it to sit well...
then we tried a dan electro longhorn bass... and right away.. it just fit in like butter in comparison to the alembic...
the style we are playing is like pop/with a bit of an edge...
What are some basses that are used for in studio use that are easy to work with mixing wise?
fender, sadowsky... etc.any other ideas recommendations?
thanks
evt

 

[grn]

direct input? EQ?

 

[EVT]

recording bass into a fishman platinum bass eq... then into the safesound p1... then into a fostex 16ex digital recorder.
the fishman is meant to go between the bass and the amplifier as well as being a di... it doesn't color the sound any... gives extra eq options)

 

[chessrock]

My bassplayer has an Alembic brown bass... high end.. but it sounds bad in the mix no matter what setting can't get it to sit well...
then we tried a dan electro longhorn bass... and right away.. it just fit in like butter in comparison to the alembic...
the style we are playing is like pop/with a bit of an edge...
What are some basses that are used for in studio use that are easy to work with mixing wise?

It may or may not be a sound that you like ... but Fender Jazz basses always seem to sit in a mix really well from my experience. Richenbachers are really good, again, for a certain kind of sound.

It's all in the bass. Good basses make for good bass tracks.

 

[Track Rat]

I have a Rick and a P Bass. While I like playing the Rick better, the P Bass tracks always seem to sit better. The Rick has its place too but the P Bass is like a Swiss army knife

 

[manning1]

my experience has been fender jazz bass as well.
but heres an idea for you to try. you have to do some tweaking - but ive heard good bass tracks done (the engineers were very crafty !)
using a bass rockman or other bass processor device, and ive even heard
good bass tracks done combining a bass processor with a miced bass cab
and using comp/lim etc. peace.

 

[EVT]

thinking about a sadowsky, or a lakeland joe osborn american model.
Have any of you recorded with these?

 

[AGCurry]

Fender Precision or Jazz bass. They're both standards of the industry and sound like what people seem to want to hear. Get one of each.

Alembics are fine instruments but follow the philosophy that high fidelity = good sound. Ain't necessarily so. Fender basses have response curves and organic characteristics/anomalies which are pleasing to the ear.

The Sadowskys and Laklands are boutique Fender-like basses. They have a certain cachet but are unlikely to provide a noticeable improvement over the venerable Fender bass; in other words, you're spending a lot more money for negligible betterness.

For that matter, if the Danelectro works, use it!

 

[EdWonbass]

It might be that he has too much mid freq dialed in. My Tobias has a Bartolini 3 band preamp in it and I recorded using my live tone and it sounded like ass.
I use a butt load of mids for my live sound but when I tried to record it like that it didn't fit the mix right. I re-recorded with the eq on the bass set pretty much flat and it was way better for that song.
The mid boost sounds nice when the track is solo'd but doesn't seem to play nice with the other instruments.
The Danelectro in your case most likely didn't have the active preamp like the Alembic so there was less mid boosting going on which is why you might have liked that sound.
This is just a theory bassed on my experience.

 

[Middleman]

Some of the Alembics have those active pickups and I swear, even going direct, I can hear the effect of the battery which keeps them active. It smears the low end of the bass notes so that solo'd, it sounds OK. Put it in a mix and it turns everything to mush.

I keep a P bass handy in case I just need it clear and clean. Gives you something to build on vs. cleaning up a mushy sound.

 

[basstone]

I'd pull the mids a bit and send two signals, one miked from the cab and the other direct from the preamp. Do a couple of takes and figure out which mix best captures the edge and depth you need, then track it.

I always like the boom you get from the miked cab, plus the attack a direct signal brings. With both to mix from, you should be able to get a sound that will fit without eating away at the rest of the mix.

Another suggestion... if you mic the cab and it sounds too bottom heavy, try using a Shure 57 about 15" out. It will limit the bottom and give you a nice pop bounce.

Cheers,

d...

 

[riantide]

I personally don't like the tailored midrange and floppy low end that active pickups tend to have (for the most part). Even with an onboard pre, you just can't dial it in most of the time.

I will definitely agree with the brilliant suggestion of an American P or Jazz bass. It just doesn't get much better, and they can be used in just about every session you could ever dream up.

Even though the bass itself is the greatest part of the problem you're talking about, you still might want to try some tricks. You could double-bus, or use multiband compression to squash only the frequencies that are causing the "mud" in your mix. You didn't mention a compressor in your signal chain (I don't know if the fostex has one onboard), but good, natural compression is a godsend for bass.

Also, and this is hard for me to admit, being a bit of a purist, but I absolutely love bass PODs. Those things can work miracles.

By the way, what amp, cab, and mics are you employing in your quest for rumble?

 

[EVT]

HI again, and thanks everybody for the info...
I have been reading these ideas for a while, but It really hit home when it was done in studio in front of our ears one right after the other through the monitors in the mix.
The alemebic's active electronics are to hot for our style, and driving me nuts since i'm the one who has to record and mix everything....

I am recording into a fishman platinum bass eq... then into the safesound p1 (safesound p1 as the compressor)... then into a fostex 16ex digital recorder.:
http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/oct03/articles/safesound.htm

Currently just going direct, I haven't mic'd a cabinet I'm in an apartment...it's hard to use amplification without getting old ladies knocking at your door.
I tried that with guitar splitting the signal... and i love it.. i mic'd a blues jr. amp.
I will probably try doing the same with the bass.
Also, I just tried micing the monitors for drums(because I use electronic programmed drums) and mixing the direct and the mic'd signal and it sounds amazing... it just makes perfect sense to do that because the drums were cutting through the mix with no depth... to cold and sterile...electronicy the air as needed in between to make it sound better.
thanks everyone,
evt

 

[RockinRobert]

Laugh if you want, I bought a Hofner 500/1 Beatle Bass a couple years ago and I've sold everything else. Best recording bass I have ever used. Not for heavy stuff though bOb

 

[glynb]

" Everything sounds good and then when I punch in the bass... ugggg... "

Just a thought, about the way you build your mixes. You are bringing the bass into the mix at the earliest stage aren't you? I mean the bass shouldn't be one of the last instruments you add, it should be amongst the first IMHO. The bass and drums should be mixed together first then add the other stuff. Sorry if I'm stating the obvious, it's just the comment you made above got me wondering about whether the problem might be in your mixing technique and EQ etc?

 

[Middleman]

glynb brings up a good point. If your mix goes South when you punch in the bass, there are a couple of things you might also check.

First, the guitars. Generally they get rolled off anywhere around 150-250 to keep them out of the lo end drum and bass areas.

Next check the lo end of your snare on the stereo in your car. This one catches me all the time in that using nearfield monitors, the low end of the snare and some of the toms falls in the cross over space between my sub and the monitors. This area will combined with the bass to turn to mush or a boomy sound that dominates the mix.

 

[EVT]

thanks...glynb,
I actually mix the drums and bass first, and then the other instruments.. and then vocals last. But, then after doing that no matter what I would do the bass doesn't sit well in the mix when everything is playing together. It sounded good alone, and with the drums as well, but really overpowering, or not heard at all... no in between..with the whole mix being heard together.... that's with the alembic though. I then punch it in and out I mean just to hear everything else together which sounds nice... and then with the bass it's not nice anymore.
thanks...Middleman...
I eq guitars... taking away some low end to open up that frequency for the bass...
snare.. and individual drums... cymbals.. etc.. I don't have access to all individually because I am using a drum machine. I always add the crash on another track though... but the bass drum, snare and highhats/ride are on 2 tracks stereo. Then I just mess around with the eq there... but I have been mic'ng the drum track through my monitors and recording them onto another single track to mix in a little which I actually was given that advice from this forum to warm up the drums and help them to have more depth etc in the mix.. and i'm very happy with the results.
We are now recording with a Fender 79 pbass and it is working out really nicely.... much, much ... easier...

I ran into this article: and said.... aha!
http://www.prorec.com/prorec/articles.nsf/files/C05204C8DC2968B78625665000797D4D


thanks everybody,
evt