Basic questions about "direct" recording.

[Cliff K]

I've aquired some old analog equipment: a Tascam M-308 eight input console and a Fostex 1/4" 8-track machine. That's all I have right now except for my guitar, guitar amp, stomp boxes, and a old cheesy Casiotone keyboard. I plan on getting a mic (any suggestions?), but right now I have a question about recording with what I've got.
I'm not really clear on the difference between levels, and what is right for my console and tape machine, and what could damage these. Specifically I'm wondering: (1) do I need a "direct box" to plug my guitar straight into my console, or can I plug a guitar cord from the guitar into the 1/4" "line" jack on the back of the console; (2) can I come straight out of a stomp box (my OD/boost pedal) with a guitar cord into the 1/4" "line" jack at the console or do I need a direct box; (3) can I come out of an "external speaker" output on my guitar amp directly into the 1/4" "line" input on my console, or do I need a direct box; (4) can I run an effect send (or an "insert" patch-point) from my console to my guitar amp to add reverb or tremelo--for example: effect send on the console to the input of the guitar amp, speaker out of the guitar amp to the effect return on the console (the signal path seems correct but I don't want to blow up any electronics in my console), and what about doing the same with my stomp boxes? Lastly: can I use regular guitar cords to patch stuff in and out of my console, or do I need "TRS" (tip, ring, sleeve) cables (why?), and, if I do need a direct box, what is the best inexpensive direct box to buy (don't have much $).

Thanks a lot for your help, and thanks for reading my long post.

Cheers!
Cliff

 

[Guest]

Yo Cliff K:

Take it a step at a time; like you can use 1/4 inch plugs if they fit into your recorder and most recorders do have 1/4 inch plugs. You can add reverb during a recording but I like to add it after the cut when I'm doing the final mix. You can usually hear the reverb in the headset on most recorders; to record with reverb, you have to push some buttons on most boxes that record.

Mic? Hmmmmm? Take your pick; I use an AKG 3000 but I've got a few other mics that got me by, like Peavey mics.

Take a look at the manual for your recorder and follow the "over-dub" steps and you can do several tracks. Try to avoid bouncing because when you combine tracks, you lose the ability to tweak each individual track; hence, an 8 track box is better than a 4 track box.

Well, man, get started and then ask some more questions.

Green Hornet

 

[Torpid-x]

ummm, wire go in round hole

[This message has been edited by Torpid-x (edited 06-25-2000).]

 

[Cliff K]

Yo Green Hornet--
Thanks, man. Yea, I'll just start trying stuff out and see what works--I guess I was wondering what NOT to do, to avaid damaging something, but it's not like I'll be pumping raw voltage through this stuff.
Thanks for your advice.

Cheers!
Cliff

 

[regebro]

I also just got a Fostex A-8. Works fine (although by some reasone the playback levels are much higher than the recording levels....) I payed about $400 just for the A-8, no mixer... Anyway:

As far as mic goes, it depends on what money you have. I recently got a great deal when I got an OKTAVA MK-319 (good russian built condenser mic) and a preamp for around $300. If thats too hefty, go with a dynamic mic.
I guess better suggestions will be found in the Microphone forum.

Now on to the answers:
(1) First, the theory: You need a direct box, or some other kind of microphone amplifying equipment to raise any mic signal to line levels. A guitar, or any other passive microphone won't be able to give enough current. It can often be enough with a fuzzbox or compressor or chorus or whatever stompbox you want to use at the moment. The best guitarsound is usually had by mikeing a guitar amp, though (see below). In that case you will of course need a direct box or an amplifier for the mic too.

Now, most mixers can take microphone signals and amplify them, the basically have a built-in line box. I don't know if your Tascam does this, but I would be very surpised if it didn't, at least on some of the channels.


(2) Yes you can. But you would probably get a better sound by mikeing up your amplifier. But then you need a mike. The standard recommendation is to put the mike close to the edge of the speaker, but hey, anything goes. If it sounds good, do it. If lineing the fuzzbox sounds better to you, do it!
There are no rules!

(3) Putting the "external speaker" output into the console will most likely break the console, if you ara lucky it will stop working forever. If you are unlucky it will burn up. Never ever do it!

(4) No, you cant, for the above reasons. Some guitar amps have line outs, that is the give you an option to use only the preamp-part of the amplifier. In that case it is possble. That output is however not marked speaker out, which is an output after the power amplifier, meant to be directly connected to a passive speaker.

However: Yes, with the stomp box you should be able to do it. Watch the levels though. Stomp boxes are not always able to handle the high line-levels, but are often made to handle lower level signals. But mostly it works.

About TRS cables:
Insert jacks need three connectors:
Ground, Signal in and Signal out.
Because of that you have the Tip, Ring, Sleeve connectors, which have three connection points. What you need are cables that split this connector up in to two ordinary cables one for the IN signal, and one for the OUT signal. This you then can connect to your stomp-box (which as you know have one in and one out jack).


(And I wouldn't call any recording going via the mixing console direct... Direct is if you plug it directly into the tape recorder, IMHO).