Autotune/ Pre or Post? Heaven or Hell?

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jonhall5446

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When using autotune, is it mostly used in post or is it actually running during the take?

Second, just wanted to get some opinions on autotune. I searched for threads on this topic and didn't come up with much. So what is your opionion? Has autotune butchered the free world for vocalists? I do not have autotune at home, so I do not know the luxury of fixing on the fly. If I want a good take, I have to do it right!
 
jonhall5446 said:
If I want a good take, I have to do it right!
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That's good experience. Autotune is a tool, not a crutch. It serves a useful purpose (IMHO) when used properly and judiciously, but it is often abused.


BTW, it is used post take.
 
jonhall5446 said:
When using autotune, is it mostly used in post or is it actually running during the take?

Second, just wanted to get some opinions on autotune. I searched for threads on this topic and didn't come up with much. So what is your opionion? Has autotune butchered the free world for vocalists? I do not have autotune at home, so I do not know the luxury of fixing on the fly. If I want a good take, I have to do it right!
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I've never heard of running it during a take, you need to be able to adjust the key and the scale as well as several other parameters. Best to do this after it's been recorded.

Not a fan of autotune, I would almost rather hear slightly out of tune singing. Could you image what would have happened to Bob Dylan, Neil Young, etc. if it was around when they started?
 
The only use of it I've seen other than post-production is in big money live pop. I don't know if it's autotune exactly, or a faster program, but I've definitely seen pitch correction used live. I think on my first album, we corrected *one* guitar note. The lead guitarist lives in Portland Oregon, and I was damned if I was going to fly him 3000 miles for one friggin' note. If we hadn't been tired, I never would have let that track go. I can see autotune as a useful bandaid for an otherwise good track with one or two problem passages, when it really isn't do-able to re-track it. If you find yourself using it more than that, either get a new musician or take lessons, depending on who it is that's getting autotuned. In this house, the motto is, "do it again, take 37..."-Richie
 
My take on AutoTune...

Well, this is probably going to run counter to the previous replies, but here's my experience with AutoTune...

First off, it's definitely a "post" application, especially if you're dealing with modulations or songs where there's a mix of mjor/minor keys and so forth.

My experience is this: when I first started home recording, I realized right off the bat that singing in the 'studio' environment and singing in the shower or around the house were 2 totally different beasts. I was very disappointed with about my first 20 tunes because my pitch was WAY less than perfect. Nothing but practice and mulitple vocal takes and retakes ever smoothed it out.

On the other hand, I recorded a CD of all original material for a guy that I worked with from Jan 2002 to Jan 2003. And I'll tell ya, AutoTune was a Godsend. Now some will tell you that you should use it sparingly and judiciously and all that, but if you really use your ears, you will know when you should go for it and when you shouldn't.

Matter of fact, one of this guy's songs had me playing fiddle for fills and for a lead break during one of his folkier sounding songs. As it turns out, my fiddle wasn't exactly in tune with the song (which was in B-flat major with a lot of closely-related minors like G7m and C7m). AutoTune was what saved the fiddle solo (which was full of energy and feeling) from a second pass in which the energy and warmth would have, no doubt, been diminished.

AutoTune saved that take. I had to apply it to the entire fiddle track to keep it where it needed to be as far as being in tune with the rest of the song, and without it, we would have lost the original and best take of the fiddle solo.

So, same as in every other forum here, use your ears and make the best call. I've used it when I needed it and it's come through everytime. Just trust your own musical judgement...

Dave
 
I never really thought about it on inst. applications. I have always thought of it as a voice fixer. Someone once told me that it can be abused, but for someone who is a soulful singer, it can correct some pitchy notes. Isn't that what soul is? Up and Down and so on. We have all heard it in pop music, but what about metal and hard rock. It pisses me off more to hear some guy screaming out notes and then moving to the ballad section of their cookie-cutter song and hearing all autotune! Default is a good example, can't sing a note but man can that guy scream. We'll have to get some singy parts in there to ever make it in the market.
 
So let me get this straight - you guys can actually hear autotune at work after the fact? How can you tell?

I'm not blasting here, I'm just curious as to what to listen for. I have been debating on the purchase of an Autotune unit, but if it's really that noticable, then perhaps I won't go for it.
 
You can hear autotune sometimes. Some one with a great ear for recording can probably pick it out whenever they want. If you listen to a recording of autotune abused and used for an effect (Kid Rock, Only god knows why, comes to mind) you can get a feel for how it sounds turned way up. After that it becomes easier to pick it out.
 
jonhall5446 said:
You can hear autotune sometimes.
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Only if it wasn't used properly or for extreme (and obvious) effect. When used judiciously to rescue words/phrases, it is not detectable.

It's when it is used inappropriately (ie, blindly on the entire track) that you'll hear artifacts.
 
I'm getting the impression that you really have to know what to listen for to detect autotune usage. Would it be fair to say that the average listener wouldn't know the difference?
 
I like AutoTune for tightening up harmonies mostly, which it does very well. On a lead vocal, it sometimes comes down to which is the lesser evil, "do it again, take 37", or using autotune on the more inspired take 2 or 3. I mean, I respect Richie's ethic of hard work, less shortcuts, but of course the problem is that by take 37, or way before that, the singer usually has forgetten what the song is actually about, has lost the ability to emote, and finally delivers the vocal on pitch, but without feeling.
Then there's the studio clock and the small budget project. When does it make sense to move on, pitch correct, and use the limited time for other things?
It can become a temptfull crutch though, and one has to question the balance of artistic honesty and the desire to make it perfect regardless of the method. Sometimes perfection is not even where we think it is, like the perfection of Neil's out of tune, but incredibly emotive singing.

-RD
 
Capt Dunsel said:
I'm getting the impression that you really have to know what to listen for to detect autotune usage. Would it be fair to say that the average listener wouldn't know the difference?
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Yes (when used properly). In fact, I would even go so far as to say the "above average" listener can't tell - when it's used properly and judiciously.
 
I have no experience with autotune, but I hear it all the time. At least I think I do. It changes the sound of a voice when it is applied, it almost sounds like a phaser, no? I swear I can hear it...??
 
Funny, I don't remember Dylan or Young as out of tune singers, nasal and falsetto but not out of tune.
 
jonhall5446 said:
It changes the sound of a voice when it is applied, it almost sounds like a phaser, no?
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As I said earlier, you don't hear it all if it's used properly.........
 
NYMorningstar said:
Funny, I don't remember Dylan or Young as out of tune singers, nasal and falsetto but not out of tune.
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You must have smoked alot of pot at their concerts then :-)
 
jonhall5446 said:
I have no experience with autotune, but I hear it all the time. At least I think I do. It changes the sound of a voice when it is applied, it almost sounds like a phaser, no? I swear I can hear it...??
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You know, I was listening to the CD our band cut a few years ago (autotune was used) and I think I know what you mean. It's almost as if there's a edginess on the top end when it kicks in. Maybe these are the artifacts that Blue Bear was talking about?

Or maybe I'm just imagining it.
 
Capt Dunsel said:
You know, I was listening to the CD our band cut a few years ago (autotune was used) and I think I know what you mean. It's almost as if there's a edginess on the top end when it kicks in. Maybe these are the artifacts that Blue Bear was talking about?

Or maybe I'm just imagining it.
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You could use it lightly where it can be subtle. Or you can over use it whereas you will definetly hear it.
 
malcolm123 said:
You could use it lightly where it can be subtle. Or you can over use it whereas you will definetly hear it.
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IMHO It's used best as an "intelligent pitch shifter". In other words, rather than just modulating a vocal up and down a few fixed number of cents as a normal pitch shifter would, it modulates to the correct frequency where the unprocessed vocal may be slightly out. It creates an artifical double track (ADT) this way, especially when a slight amount of delay is added.
 
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