audiophile 2496 and monitoring

[cstockdale]

can the AP 2496 simultaneously route the input signal (say coming from an external mixing board) back out of the outputs and into a software application at the same time?

i.e. I use a Behringer 602A mixer connected via the aux outs to the ins of the 2496, and the outs of the soundcard go to a stereo pair in my mixer to monitor what I have recorded already. I don't use "input monitoring" in Sonar, because I get a slight latency problem, not much, but enough to provide a "chorus" feel due to a very short delay, and it throws my timing off. The way I am configured, I get to monitor my input direct from the board , and hear stuff out of Sonar at the same time. However, the Berhinger mixer only has one aux out, and it is Mono. I therefore am effectively giving myself only one input to Sonar.

I can't use the main outs or control room outs from teh mixer into the 2496 because everything that comes into the board goes out the main outs: I would end up looping what I have already recorded back in with what I am trying to currently record.

I have one other option to get my two ins to the 2496.

I can use the Main Outs IF and only IF I use the Tape Ins as my monitoring source from teh 2496 outs because I can select whether or not the Tape In goes to teh main mix OR to the control room mix. There is a catch here: if I use this routing, when I depress the 2TK-->Control Room button, it cuts out the mains, so I can't hear what I am currently recording anymore, and I have to use the "input monitoring" option in SONAR to hear what I am putting in. As I have already outlined above, this is not a desirable way of recording due to a slight processing lag (ie I have to wait a few ms for the input signal to go through the card, get converted, run into SONAR, run back to the card, get converted again for me to hear).

I haven't tried this yet, but in the patchbay router section of the 2496 windows that pop up, I can select H/W In 1/2 in teh H/W Out 1/2 section, which would send my input signal straight back out to the mixer.....


The short bit here: can I send an input signal to the 2496 card that will get sent straight back out to the Mixer (so that I can monitor what I am recording without having to send it all the way to SONAR and back) AND send it on to Sonar at the same time? This way I could connect my Eurorack 602A mixer to the 2496 via the main outs, get my two inputs, and hear what I am recording via the Tape Ins on the mixer and monitor what I am recording at the same time?

 

[quattro_xxph]

Yes. But it wont be "simultaneous". Depending on the drivers you're using check you're latency levels.

 

[Doug H]

I've used the tape ins on the behringer and monitored the playback through the headphones, I had to st the audiophile up with the monitor mixer to do it. I didn't read your whole post so you may have mentioned this. Right now I've got my stereo hooked up, partly because I think the headphone amp in it is probably better than the one in the behringer.

 

[BrettMckinney]

What exactly does 'monitor mixer' do in the control panel?

 

[cstockdale]

see my response to your thread in the cakewalk forum. But in brief (and I just learned this last night), teh monitor mixer controls what inputs/outputs are "heard" in the monitor mixer: ie. which would allow you to control waht signals go where inside your computer. Just like the external mixer controls signal routing, you can control internal signal routing with this mixer. For the past several months, I just ignored this feature, but I figured it out last night.

ie. in the monitor mixer, you can select WAV OUT S/PDIF (ie. any internal signals routed to the SPDIF Output on the back of the soundcard, like you would generate if you were transferring to DAT or some external digital device), WAV OUT 1/2 (all non SPDIF sounds generated inside the computer routed to the analog outs or RCA jacks, hence "wav out"), HW In 1/2 (namely the two analog inputs on the back of the card, "hw" meaning hardware, or external devices hooked into the RCA jacks), HW In Spdif (the Spdif input on the back of the soundcard).

So, this regulates what signals are "heard" inside the monitor mixer, which in and of itself is not very interesting, until you explore the Patchbay/Router section. There, you have two outputs to work with: HW OUt 1/2 and HW OUt S/PDIF. These are your soundcard outputs, one being the digital out, the other being the analog out (rca jacks). Now, you get to decide what signals you want to send out those jacks.

I have not got into the world of using the S/PDIF out of my soundcard as I have no external devices that need it. I do have one S/PDIF input device: my guitar amp modeller, however. But for this I will focus solely on the H/W Out 1/2 (RCA jacks). This is the signal that you "monitor" out of the RCA jacks, ie whatever is being sent out of the soundcard to your external mixer, or a power amp driving speakers if that is where they are installed. If you only want to hear what is being generated inside the computer, then you would select "Wavout 1/2" which is all the digital audio being generated in the 'puter. If all you want to hear is the incoming S/PDIF signal (say from my J-station amp modeller hooked into the S/PDIF input), I would select the S/PDIF In option. The S/PDIF In(L/R Rev) option just swaps L/R the other way around (why you would want this, I don't know). Or, if you want to hear a COMBINATION of these things, you select the Monitor Mixer option, and everything that you have unmuted in the Monitor Mixer page will come out the RCA outputs.

In other words: (sorry to other people on this thread, as this is one that spans three different forums: Cakewalk, Newbies and here) if you use an external mixer to route your signals in and out of the 2496 card, you have essentially three "input monitoring" otions:

1) No external mixing monitoring (say on a Behringer mixer you have the outs from teh 2496 card going to the Tape In and you have pressed the 2TK-->Control Room option, you can no longer monitor your input signal from the mixing board directly), and using "input monitoring" in Sonar or Cakewalk or whichever program you have (that may or may not support this otpion). Downside to this is that there is latency in monitoring as the Input signal has to go from teh mixer, to the soundcard, get converted to digital, sent to SONAR, get processed, and sent back to the soundcard, converted back to analog and back to your ears. It takes a few ms to do this.

2) Monitor your input signal from your mixer, and if you have a mixer like I do with only one Aux send and no capabilities of routing the signal seperately to control room or main outs, you are forced to record with only one input into the 2496.

3) Like number 1, but instead of using the "input monitoring" of your software, use the patchbay router and monitor mixer options in the 2496 to send your input signal right back to you along with the signals generated by your software. There is no latency this way, as the input signal is sent straight back out of the outputs without any analog/digital: digital/audio conversions.

 

[Hawking]

There is no latency this way, as the input signal is sent straight back out of the outputs without any analog/digital: digital/audio conversions.

Actually, this isn't exactly right. There is conversion done at this point. It is, however done completely on the card, bypassing the CPU and software (Cakewalk, Sonar, whatever). There is latency here, but it is so small that you can't here it. Or at least I can't here it. Any time you plug a signal into the analog inputs, it goes directly to the A/D converters. It's then passed along to the monitor mixer, the D/A converters, and out to the RCA or S/PDIF outputs. Although the latency is less than 1 ms, there's still the concern (in the 'I can here a fly fart in china' clan) that the conversion process will affect the sound if you are doing something like passing a signal through the card on its' way to analog tape..

 

[cstockdale]

Actually, this isn't exactly right. There is conversion done at this point. It is, however done completely on the card, bypassing the CPU and software (Cakewalk, Sonar, whatever). There is latency here, but it is so small that you can't here it. Or at least I can't here it. Any time you plug a signal into the analog inputs, it goes directly to the A/D converters. It's then passed along to the monitor mixer, the D/A converters, and out to the RCA or S/PDIF outputs. Although the latency is less than 1 ms, there's still the concern (in the 'I can here a fly fart in china' clan) that the conversion process will affect the sound if you are doing something like passing a signal through the card on its' way to analog tape..

thanks for the additional info. It takes a while to really comprehend what is happening at every step in the signal chain, but it sure helps in just understanding what you can do with what you have at your fingertips. These days , many of us are playing with more studio power than most artists had at top end studios in the 80's, and most of us still don't understand what that means we are capable of doing.