Audio/Midi w/same soundcard?

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Kellie's Dad

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I've been costing out a system and planned on using SB Live Value for midi and Echo Mia for Audio. Instead, what would the most economical soundcard that would do a good job for audio and midi as well? I don't need professional quality, but I'd like best bang for the buck home studio.
 
Um, I don't think the audiophile does MIDI.

Slackmaster 2000
 
Oops! Dumb ass I am... :rolleyes:

I didn't read carefully and forgot that you needed MIDI capability on your card. ... hmmm... Anyway, the Audiophile is good but you won't be able to send MIDI data to this card... :( For the MIDI part I use a Creative SoundBlaster Audigy Platinum... This is the best card out there for MIDI (Correct me if I'm wrong :o).

Peace :cool:
Beathoven
 
Does this mean that the SB Live Value with the Echo Mia is my best bet?
 
I think so... Or SB Live with Audiophile 2496... Your choice.

Peace,
Beathoven
 
Then what is the function of the MIDI-connectors on my Audiophile?
 
Meshuggah said:
Then what is the function of the MIDI-connectors on my Audiophile?
Click to expand...

they are for you to connect to MIDI devices like sound module.
 
That's one of my pet peeves, the cavalier way the phrase "MIDI capability" and its variants are tossed around. "It has MIDI." "It's a MIDI card." "Yes, it does MIDI."

The trouble is this is incomplete information, since there are two MIDI devices that could be part of a soundcard. There's the MIDI interface itself to provide a gateway for MIDI data into and out of the computer. Then there are MIDI devices (usually instruments) that respond to these messages by playing a sound or doing something. There are sound cards that have both a MIDI interface and a MIDI synth; there are also soundcards that have just a MIDI interface and no synth; and there are soundscards that have neither (as far as I know I've never encountered one that has just a synth and no interface).

What's more, people that are new to recording on PCs often have had their first exposure to the idea from the inexpensive consumer soundcards or on-the-motherboard hardware that come installed on a typical consumer PC. So their natural assumption when you say a card "has MIDI" is that it has a place to plug in a keyboard controller and also makes sounds.

So you folks first getting into this, you need to get this distinction clear and make sure that when someone tells you it's a MIDI card, you also ask, "do you mean a MIDI interface only or does it also have a MIDI synth?" And we "experts" here passing out advice need to be explicit about the difference when we talk about MIDI cards.

OK, I'm down off my soapbox now...
 
OOPS! My fault. I didn't remember the audiophile doing MIDI. Sorry about that!!!

Slackmaster 2000
 
the Audiophile has Midi gozentas/gozoutas (input/output)...what it lacks is an onboard synth and thats where the second card comes in...
 
I'm still confused about this midi issue. I recently rang a soundcard shop and asked if cards like the Audiophile and Delta 1010, both which have midi in/out, could have a midi keyboard plugged into them and then generate sounds using "softsynth" software and the guy said yes. (I was presuming he meant the soundcard itself and not a sound chip in the keyboard would generate the sound). He also said these sounds once saved as midi data can be burned directly to CD as wave files. If this is true is the soft synth option then a good one to take?

I asked about general midi and he said that's what you need a sound module like a yamaha (XY?) for. But surely if softsynths can use a standard soundcard to generate synth sounds, there must be some softsynths that can apply a gm format to sounds as an option?

Could someone correct me where I or the good shopkeeper are wrong or a bit off the beam?

Thankyou. I would really like to get clear on this issue!!!

Nige
 
Well it seems i am in a similar situation. I have read and read and read and i always come up with the same conclusion, which is, the audiophile2496 is the card to go for quality, yet it lacks connectivity, and i can't seem to find a compatable device that would increase the connections, similar to the live drive used by soundblaster. So for this reason i am considering purchasing an audigy platinum, yet i have heard many "fraudigy" comments, about it being a 16/48bit card. How much difference is there recording wise?

Let me explain my situation, maybe some one can help:

I have an electric guitar which connects through a J-Station (s/pdif input needed on card) also the j-station requires a midi port in which it can download data for new effetcs etc.

Secondly i will need a good quality microphone input slot, such as on the audiophile. Yet i also require an optical output port for my minidisc in order to record my songs, however a solution can be made, which is i purchase a cd-writer and just stick with cd's and record minidisc through the anolog port.

Thirdly i need a card which will allow multi channel recording, aka guitar + mic at the same time.

and most importantly i require the most professional sound available for my price range £200 not including mic + cd-writer.

So surely it would be a good option to go for the sblaster audigy platinum for connectivity. but yet the doubt of its capability of only being a 16/48 bit card still lurks in my mind.

So anyone help??? at all it would be most apprecaited.
cheers

aL
 
to Nigie's questions...

Nigie,

The salesguy was a little woofy there. Yes, you can run softsynths and use the MIDI interface with a keyboard to play the softsynths. But this

"He also said these sounds once saved as midi data can be burned directly to CD as wave files."

is misleading. The sounds cannot be saved as MIDI data. MIDI dta is MIDI data. But the recorded MIDI data can certainly play back through the softsynth, just as you could play it through the MIDI keyboard and MIDI interface. And this audio data (produced by the softsynth in response to the MIDI messages) can be mixed down and recorded to CD just like any other audio data.

Now to the General MIDI point - "I asked about general midi and he said that's what you need a sound module like a yamaha (XY?) for. But surely if softsynths can use a standard soundcard to generate synth sounds, there must be some softsynths that can apply a gm format to sounds as an option?"

Yes, in fact, they probably almost all do. So you do not need a hardware MIDI synth for GM compatability, so suggesting so to you was misleading.

Now to the crux of what you're really asking here: "If [what the saleman told you] is true is the soft synth option then a good one to take?"

Well, maybe. The thing is, software synths can require a lot of your computer's resources. They will compete with your recording application for these resources. So as a result, using a softsynth will likely reduce the number of tracks and/or the number of plug-in effects you have applied in your recording application. If your computer is a savage new cutting-edge box and you are not typically pushing it to the max with effects and large track-counts and digital video running along with the audio, etc., then a softsynth might be just the ticket. If you have an older computer it might be a problem. Of course, different softsynths are more-or-less resource-efficient depending on how well they are programmed...

Hope this helps a bit.
 
... and to MenT-aL's questions

... i will need a good quality microphone input slot, such as on the audiophile.
Click to expand...

The Audiophile has no microphone input. And the Audigy's is not a quality one, and does not supply phantom power for condenser mics. You would do better with a mixer, or an outboard preamp like the Midiman Audio Buddy to get the mic signal to line level, and take that into one of the Audiophile's line inputs.


... i also require an optical output port for my minidisc in order to record my songs...
Click to expand...
There are converters to change the standard S/PDIF signal to an optical one, so that wouldn't rule out the Audophile unless the converter cost shoots you over your price limit.

Another factor in this is, do you need a MIDI synth, or can softsynths work for you, or do you already own some external MIDI instruments? The Audigy's synth with Sound Fonts is a great little device for the price.
 
How much would a converter for the s/pdif cost? roughly? and also about the mic situation, what would you recommend? as my budget is fairly tight. As for the midi goes, the only midi device i would be using a my j-station as it requires a midi port for downloading data such as patches and effects.

My last question would be, what is the difference quality wise between a 16/48 bit card and a 24/96?

Oh and is there any other seperate device that is compatable with the a24/96 that has these extra connections like the live drive, or would the live drive work?

cheers though Alchuck, i need all the advice i can get!

regards

aL
 
So, is the general consensus that there is not one card that will do both, without spending big bucks, and without Creative Labs?

Get this; I just went to one of the largest computer stores that specializes in building from scratch and they (Mgr. and 3 compu-geeks) tried to tell me it was impossible to use more than one soundcard at the same time.
 
Thanks AlChuck. Yes that was a big help, fine tuning those points. As long as I can hit the "burn to CD" button on a song containing, (1) audio tracks and (2) midi tracks that are played thru a softsynth and render the whole lot to a wavefile that will burn onto a CD which will play on a stereo... I have grasped the concept I think!

Thanks for the tip about the GM - yes what you say makes sense for sure. And thanks yes the cpu load of softsynths is a concern.

I was looking at the soundblaster live ($69 gamer 5.1) and audigy series on their web page and was wondering how they compared eg. motu vs audigy synth. Also audigy can use up to 1gig of computer's ram, live only 32meg - I presume this refers to ability to store self created sounds?

Another thing is, the midi/joystick port on the live version - is that equivalent to just a midi in but no out? And for monitoring the live sounds could you go through your main soundcard's 24bit convertors instead of the live's own 16 bit convertors?

The live game card may be a cheap solution to acquiring midi sounds it seems but does anyone have experience with using it or comparisons with the higher end sb cards?

Any advice would be well appreciated..

Nige
 
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