AT4033 or SDCs for Drum OHs / acoustics?

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Up til now I’ve been using a pair of AT4033s for drum overheads and acoustic instrument recordings. The results have been good, no real complaints.

I was thinking about getting a pair of small diaphragm condensers for these jobs.

What differences could I expect using, say, a pair of Studio Project C4s or Rode NT5s instead of the AT4033s? Would there be any plus factors to this or would it be a bit of a downgrade for these applications?

Thanks!
 
The advantage of LDCs on Drums is hyped highs and hyped lows. Which benefits drums, kick + cymbals.

SDCs are more of a what you hear is what you get type mic. And lack some of the detail / room presence you get with LDCs.

If you have a bad room, SDCs might be better. If you have a great room, you might find them lacking.
 
4033s are sort of "medium diaphragm" - I have a pair, but I should say I haven't used them as overheads (I don't have a lot of full set micing experience at this point), but have used them on acoustic and for individual percussion instruments.

I like them, but they're currently in my "second string" mic box, because I tend to use either Oktava MC-012s or Shure SM-81s for both tasks (including the somewhat rare overhead micing I do these days). I notice more high frequency detail with a decent pair of SDCs. Most recently I tried a pair of AKG C451E mics for overheads, and there was too much detail for the sound I wanted at that time -- not so with the others. Another caveat would be that some SDCs don't have the bass response you'd want, but I'm not familiar with either of the two you mentioned (but I know some of us around here are), and I can say the bass was fine with the three I just mentioned.

That said, I'm sure I will use the 4033s for overheads at some point - to get a slightly less detailed sound that fits a particular song or maybe a particular drum set.
 
antichef said:
4033s are sort of "medium diaphragm" - I have a pair, but I should say I haven't used them as overheads (I don't have a lot of full set micing experience at this point), but have used them on acoustic and for individual percussion instruments.

I like them, but they're currently in my "second string" mic box, because I tend to use either Oktava MC-012s or Shure SM-81s for both tasks (including the somewhat rare overhead micing I do these days). I notice more high frequency detail with a decent pair of SDCs. Most recently I tried a pair of AKG C451E mics for overheads, and there was too much detail for the sound I wanted at that time -- not so with the others. Another caveat would be that some SDCs don't have the bass response you'd want, but I'm not familiar with either of the two you mentioned (but I know some of us around here are), and I can say the bass was fine with the three I just mentioned.

That said, I'm sure I will use the 4033s for overheads at some point - to get a slightly less detailed sound that fits a particular song or maybe a particular drum set.
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yup.
I used to use a pair of 4033's and got the Oktavas and the Shures later, they(4033) haven't been out since.
I think they sounded fine, not better or worse, I just prefer the way the sdc's sit in a mix
 
Smaller diaphragms buy you better transient response and more consistent off-axis response. The latter is important for accurate stereo imaging. The former is useful for accuracy on transient sources, such as cymbals, and also helps with stereo imaging. It usually also translates into better ultrahigh frequency response, say the region above 15kHz where cymbal overtones live.

Small vs. large doesn't necessarily buy you any other difference in frequency response. It's easier for a small diaphragm to be flat, but there are plenty of small diaphragm mics that are bright, colored, whatever. Contrary to popular belief, larger diaphragms do not buy you better bass response.

So it comes down to accuracy vs. color, and whether that color is desirable for the style of music and especially type of cymbals being used.

Harvey's thread, as always, is a great resource for more details on questions like these.
 
Hey, thanks very much for all that. I sort of suspected something like that but wasn't really sure how the 4033 stacked up in the LD to SD spectrum. I really appreciate the detailed responses.

Now its on to decide which SDC pair to get on a roughly $3-500 budget. Is there a noticeable bump up in sonic quality if I waited a couple more months and got a pair of something in the $700-1k area instead?

I just upgraded the drum/guitar cab close mics to MD421s and would like to upgrade the OH mics now. Thanks for the help!
 
I did a drum OH shootout a while ago with three different capsule sizes -- 6mm omnis (Avenson STO-2), 17.5mm SDCs (OktavaMod MK-012), and ~28mm LDCs (CAD M179). The differences were pretty subtle, and i think had more to do with directionality than capsule size.

One takeaway: I'm no longer afraid to use omni overheads.

Shadow's point about the room is a good one; if you're not working in a tuned or treated room, chances are you'll get a much more significant sonic upgrade from improving the room than from improving the OH mics. (The same goes for the drums and the drummer!)

I think LDCs are a little more forgiving about directionality than SDCs, meaning even in cardioid mode they're not quite as picky about which way they're pointed.

Other OH thoughts: mid-side can be awesome... Blumlein via two figure-of-8 ribbons, or Cascade's inexpensive X15 can be neat too.

Here's the overhead mic shootout (with sound clips) if you're interested.
 
recordinghacks said:
if you're not working in a tuned or treated room, chances are you'll get a much more significant sonic upgrade from improving the room than from improving the OH mics. (The same goes for the drums and the drummer!)
Click to expand...

I'll third that. First, kill early reflections; second, buy better cymbals. That, and a decent drummer, and just about any mic will work.
 
Is there a noticeable bump up in sonic quality if I waited a couple more months and got a pair of something in the $700-1k area instead?
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long story short...probably, yea

i've used my NT5's a couple times for OH's, but much prefer my SM81's

AKG 451's can also sound pretty good, but they'll probably sound sort of trashy if you don't have some good room treatment due to the fact that they're pretty damn bright
 
recordinghacks said:
One takeaway: I'm no longer afraid to use omni overheads.
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Depends on what you're going for. Omni overheads are fine, but they do limit what mic techniques you can use. They're not going to work well in an X/Y mic placement, for example, which is my preferred style of overhead placement.
 
disgruntled-inc said:
Who is Harvey and where could one find this thread?
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You can Google Harvey Gerst for his CV. The first sticky on this board is his thread, although he didn't actually start it, he imparted his great knowledge of microphone design and application on that thread. He also started the second sticky, which is good too.
 
I think the rode NT5s do a great job as a stereo overhead on a drum kit, but 2 rode NT1s are also very nice.
It really depends on what type of sound you're going for.

If I am doing a "harder rock, metal, scremo, emo, noisy sound, I like a SDC.
If I am doing something a little softer I like a LDC
 
mshilarious said:
You can Google Harvey Gerst for his CV. The first sticky on this board is his thread, although he didn't actually start it, he imparted his great knowledge of microphone design and application on that thread. He also started the second sticky, which is good too.
Click to expand...

Thanks-you!
 
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