ASIO issues

[josiebethlewis2019]

14 years ago I never had this many issues just setting up my MIDI keyboard, and getting it to record in any DAW. I have an issue with my ASIO driver interfering with Windows. I have watched all the tutorials, and set every sound program/device to the same 44100 Hz, but even though everything matches, including ASIO, it is impossible to get the MIDI keyboard to both play and record in the DAWs I've tried. I've tried several. Reaper, Acid Pro, Audition, Anything I can get working to arrange pre-recorded samples just refuses to allow me to record. On top of that, in spite of being assured that matching settings would get rid of the problem where YouTube videos won't play when ASIO is loaded, they still will not play when ASIO is loaded. How am I supposed to get this working? I am out of ideas and none of the videos I watched give me a working solution. If a DAW uses ASIO at all, most of the time it warns that ASIO causes instability. Some of them refuse to even allow ASIO to load at all and force you to use Windows Audio drivers, so somewhere there has to be a connection that allows both to function, I just can't seem to figure out how. None of the forum posts I've read give me a working solution. I think it boils down to needing a multi-client ASIO driver, but those seem to be elusive or built in to specific DAWs that I can't use right now. Can anyone help me figure this out? I can play any specific VST with ASIO, some work without it and use only the native windows drivers (ASIO is not even an option). One VST refuses to play inside a DAW but plays fine outside the DAW. Both ways (when they play) play with no noticeable latency at all and very quick response on the keys. But none of them work in a DAW so I can record. None of them can be recorded in Audacity. I can even load most of the VST plugins in the DAW and play them in the DAW, but none of them will record, like they refuse to do it. I can arm the track for recording and hit record, and it refuses to record the notes I play. I'm about to pull my hair out. I should not have a hardware problem. I have 64 GB of memory and a decent processor. It's a software issue and I just do not know what to do to fix it. It was not this difficult 14 years ago to get things working right. And please, don't be snarky and say "It's user error". No it's not, I have several years of experience, it is a configuration issue where I am either missing a setting somewhere that I am unaware of, or ASIO4ALL is trash and I need a true Multiclient cross-DAW ASIO driver that truly works miracles. Some VSTs require the ASIO driver to get rid of key latency or the keys do not respond correctly.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I don't have any kind of quick fix, but I'll get the conversation started. First, ASIOFORALL is not actually ASIO, it's a way of making Windows drivers faster, or something like that. I can't tell if you're using just one or switching between them. Second, I don't see any specific hardware mentioned. That might be needed for people to help.

 

[rob aylestone]

You need to explain what you are doing and how you are connecting. Some things you seem to have misunderstood. Asio plays no part in recording notes? If you connect a keyboard to a DAW, that’s midi. Audio is not involved. Audio drivers come in ‘flavours’ and asio is just a common one. In some daws they grab the audio driver and like in my system, if I open Adobe audition it is silent because my DAW refuses to release the driver. I can tell it to allow other applications to use the audio drivers but often, when I close audition, Cubase does not automatically restore the driver so I have to do it manually.

I got a bit lost in the processes you were talking about. Can you explain what you have, how it is wired (as in the keyboard via usb or midi connectors) and what you are doing? Are you trying to use the daw internal vstis oddly? You mentioned they work in stand alone on whatever sound device you are using but not within the daw? In the daw is it connected to your sound device? Mine doesn’t need me to faff with asio. That’s in a different menu and is remembered. I just need to connect to the right sound device?

We need a bit more info on what you have and what you are doing?

 

[DM60]

Couple of things, I am guessing at a lot of this since what you have stated is rather generic, but let me try and help you out here.
First, each ASIO driver is written for the hardware. You didn't say what your audio device was, you also didn't say if you were using USB MIDI or the old DIN plugin.

But, the first thing is, if your DAW is open, it takes control of the audio device.

Windows allows this, as you can see above, and as long as that is checked, your audio device won't work with other software. You need to remove the check it you don't want that to happen.

Inside the DAW, you must select what driver you want to use. (Setting up audio device), depends on the software/DAW. Now, for the next part.

First create a track and set it for MIDI, this also depends on the software, you will need to pick the software and figure out how that is done. Once you have that track ready for MIDI recording, arm it and record MIDI. If notes are not created in the track, you are not communicating with the DAW/computer and your MIDI device. Most likely, you will need to make sure you have your MIDI device is connected (MIDI is data, not sound) and communicating. Once you have the DAW recording the MIDI data, then the VST will work.

It is possible to hear the sound of your MIDI keyboard, with the VSTi (that "i" means the VST must be an instrument VST). But usually the channel must be armed for recording and monitored. Once again, check with your software on how to do that.

If you have the audio setting like above, if you have any other audio program open, it takes control of the audio device, causes a mess.

Here is my suggestion, I would start at least with Reaper, since there are lots of people on this board who can assist directly. Second, tell us what audio interface you have. ASIO4ALL works, but if you have an ASIO driver for your interface, that will usually work better. Also, once we know how your audio and your MIDI is connected, then we can assist much better.

Summary: Pick your software (DAW), tell us the audio interface, MIDI connection and what version of Windows you have. After that, I think we can walk you through the process. This really looks like a user problem and not a hardware problem, I might be wrong, but 99.9% of the time, it is the user. In your DAW, you will setup your audio interface and your MIDI connection (they are not the same), once you have that, then you can test with a VSTi and arming/monitoring a channel to hear the output.

Hopefully this will assist getting you moving in the correct direction.

 

[josiebethlewis2019]

Couple of things, I am guessing at a lot of this since what you have stated is rather generic, but let me try and help you out here.
First, each ASIO driver is written for the hardware. You didn't say what your audio device was, you also didn't say if you were using USB MIDI or the old DIN plugin.

But, the first thing is, if your DAW is open, it takes control of the audio device.

View attachment 143133

Windows allows this, as you can see above, and as long as that is checked, your audio device won't work with other software. You need to remove the check it you don't want that to happen.

Inside the DAW, you must select what driver you want to use. (Setting up audio device), depends on the software/DAW. Now, for the next part.

First create a track and set it for MIDI, this also depends on the software, you will need to pick the software and figure out how that is done. Once you have that track ready for MIDI recording, arm it and record MIDI. If notes are not created in the track, you are not communicating with the DAW/computer and your MIDI device. Most likely, you will need to make sure you have your MIDI device is connected (MIDI is data, not sound) and communicating. Once you have the DAW recording the MIDI data, then the VST will work.

It is possible to hear the sound of your MIDI keyboard, with the VSTi (that "i" means the VST must be an instrument VST). But usually the channel must be armed for recording and monitored. Once again, check with your software on how to do that.

If you have the audio setting like above, if you have any other audio program open, it takes control of the audio device, causes a mess.

Here is my suggestion, I would start at least with Reaper, since there are lots of people on this board who can assist directly. Second, tell us what audio interface you have. ASIO4ALL works, but if you have an ASIO driver for your interface, that will usually work better. Also, once we know how your audio and your MIDI is connected, then we can assist much better.

Summary: Pick your software (DAW), tell us the audio interface, MIDI connection and what version of Windows you have. After that, I think we can walk you through the process. This really looks like a user problem and not a hardware problem, I might be wrong, but 99.9% of the time, it is the user. In your DAW, you will setup your audio interface and your MIDI connection (they are not the same), once you have that, then you can test with a VSTi and arming/monitoring a channel to hear the output.

Hopefully this will assist getting you moving in the correct direction.

I recognize this menu because I set everything up so that the DAW will take over the audio.
1) I have a USB connected Alesis V25 MIDI keyboard. It's a small one. But it's pretty new. It does not have it's own ASIO driver. I checked the manufactureres site. Nothing. It has a firmware updating program but that's it. The device is plug and play.
2) The VST I am trying to use is East West Play and it has several libraries. I just have to pick one and an instrument.
3) The problem is the latency in EW Play is garbage with the regular Windows Audio driver. And the only way to get responsive keys was to use the ASIO4ALL to do it. Otherwise the latency is awful and the delay is unbearable. I can't play like that.
4) Reaper does not have a built in ASIO driver and even warns about instability if I try to switch to it.
5) I can't get the VSTi to play in Reaper at all. It refuses to play so that is a non starter. Even with ASIO selected for both the VST and Reaper with the sample rate matching for both.
6) I have tried Cakewalk, but that one refuses to even load ASIO as a driver and reverts to Windows Audio, so it only works with plugins like LABS that have a low latecny Windows Audio setting available (Which may just be a fancy way of saying it's their own ASIO layer). However that too will not record no matter what VSTi I try to get notes from while playing the MIDI device.
7) I have the midi device enabled in the DAWs so it should not be ignoring the keyboard.

I already said this was much less of a headache with almost the same setup nearly 14 years ago and I can't figure out what I might be missing. It used to be really simple with almost no obstacles. Now it seems like everything is convoluted. I can't think right now I'm pretty tired so If that was not enough explanation I have no idea what to say.

 

[DM60]

OK, first, your keyboard is a controller. That means it just uses it MIDI to record the notes and some other DAW functions. No sound. You are using Windows and your computer's sound card. That means, more or less, you will probably have latency issues.

I am not sure what you did 14 years ago (I was doing it then as well), but what you have now is the focus.

There is no dedicated ASIO driver for your sound card. Usually that is for a audio device (I say usually as I could be proven wrong). If you use the ASIO4ALL, you are going to get limited results.

But, that being said, for MIDI, review this: https://help.cakewalk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034169394-Connect-a-USB-MIDI-Keyboard

You will have to use your computer's sound card and I am afraid it is just going to sound not very good and have a lot of latency. Between the signal of the MIDI, conversion of the sound by the VSTi, output to the computer card, well, the result is not going to be what you want. Lots of latency. But you are playing through your computers sound card. ASIO4ALL might gain you some speed, but I don't think you will hear it.

I suggest getting everything working just using your Windows audio as the output device in your DAW, if you didn't change the exclusivity in the properties as presented int he other thread, you won't hear anything if you have another program open. Once you have it working (forget latency right now, that is not going to get fixed at this point), then I recommend getting an audio interface that has an ASIO driver. (around $100, Focusrite, Presonus Audiobox, ...) If you get to that point, post another question about interfaces, everyone here can steer you in the right direction. I think the Presonus is pretty good, but others have their preference.

Just to make sure we are talking the same thing in regards to your computer, if your 64GB is storage and not RAM, well... But if it is RAM, that sounds like a pretty beefy computer and not the norm. So, I question your computer can really handle it. You need to give us a bit more information on the specs. But let's say you do have a late model computer, i5 late generation chip or better and 64GB RAM, that would work very well. Then an audio interface would cure your ills. However, if your computer is as bad as I am suspecting, you might want to revisit that part first. In other words, if your computer is 14 years old, while it can be done, you will really have to treat it very special.

Let us know.

 

[josiebethlewis2019]

OK, first, your keyboard is a controller. That means it just uses it MIDI to record the notes and some other DAW functions. No sound. You are using Windows and your computer's sound card. That means, more or less, you will probably have latency issues.

I am not sure what you did 14 years ago (I was doing it then as well), but what you have now is the focus.

There is no dedicated ASIO driver for your sound card. Usually that is for a audio device (I say usually as I could be proven wrong). If you use the ASIO4ALL, you are going to get limited results.

But, that being said, for MIDI, review this: https://help.cakewalk.com/hc/en-us/articles/360034169394-Connect-a-USB-MIDI-Keyboard

You will have to use your computer's sound card and I am afraid it is just going to sound not very good and have a lot of latency. Between the signal of the MIDI, conversion of the sound by the VSTi, output to the computer card, well, the result is not going to be what you want. Lots of latency. But you are playing through your computers sound card. ASIO4ALL might gain you some speed, but I don't think you will hear it.

I suggest getting everything working just using your Windows audio as the output device in your DAW, if you didn't change the exclusivity in the properties as presented int he other thread, you won't hear anything if you have another program open. Once you have it working (forget latency right now, that is not going to get fixed at this point), then I recommend getting an audio interface that has an ASIO driver. (around $100, Focusrite, Presonus Audiobox, ...) If you get to that point, post another question about interfaces, everyone here can steer you in the right direction. I think the Presonus is pretty good, but others have their preference.

Just to make sure we are talking the same thing in regards to your computer, if your 64GB is storage and not RAM, well... But if it is RAM, that sounds like a pretty beefy computer and not the norm. So, I question your computer can really handle it. You need to give us a bit more information on the specs. But let's say you do have a late model computer, i5 late generation chip or better and 64GB RAM, that would work very well. Then an audio interface would cure your ills. However, if your computer is as bad as I am suspecting, you might want to revisit that part first. In other words, if your computer is 14 years old, while it can be done, you will really have to treat it very special.

Let us know.

No, your suspicions are wrong. I'm a computer tech first before anything else. It really is 64 GB of RAM. The computer is only a few months old. I built it myself with a focus toward Video editing (With Davinci Resolve) and Graphic arts, so it has to be beefy. But now I want to compose more music, which I am also pretty talented with. And this machine can handle it easily. I already have composed music on it. Just not with this particular plugin that is being a pain. The PC also has an i5. I could probably stand to upgrade the CPU, but it's not the worst CPU I could have installed in the socket. I don't just give out my complete specs to random people on the internet because today, bad actors can use that information. Besides, it's pretty irrelevant to the issue. It's not the specs of my PC that are the problem, it's the software and things not being cross compatible in the audio software world. I mean, Melodyne has not improved it's stability in 14 years when it could have, but nope, the program is still crash prone when you'd think that would have been eliminated in the last 10 years. (Why that hasn't been fixed is mind boggling considering not much has been improved feature wise since it was first introduced). I used to be able to just go into a DAW, set the MIDI controller, open the VST plugin, play something and record it pretty fast. I may have needed a generic ASIO back then but it was so inconsequential it just worked. I didn't need yet another piece of equipment to get a driver that works. That's why it's completely insane to me just how convoluted the whole process is now. With your suggestion to get a $100 interface, it seems like the audio companies figured out how to be highway bandits with something that didn't used to be necessary. They are creating a checkpoint so you HAVE to go through them to get what you need. I guess it makes sense then why the generic ASIO drivers are so limited, and only do half of what they should, why the older multiclient ASIO drivers have been made "obsolete", and magically the only way to get one that works is to buy another piece of equipment from one of the audio tech giants. If that's the only way to get the ASIO multi client layer so it can interpret the WIN audio for the DAW, then it seems like it's a problem that has been software engineered into existence, and not the true limitation of ASIO coding itself. I smell funny business. Why would I need to route a MIDI controller through something external, when it normally doesn't need it? I mean just the example of LABS is proof that this is not a necessary step in the software, since it uses the native WIN audio driver and has zero latency issues. It should just play/record if the DAW is set up to use the native WIN Audio. Right? Anyway, it's clear I'm not going to find a solution without someone recommending the additional purchase when it's a totally unnecessary manufactured step. Thanks. Oh and here's something I composed. There's plenty more where that came from. Dread Just so you don't assume I'm some noob who has no idea how to even make music at all.

 

[DM60]

Don't confuse audio interface with your MIDI controller input since you are using USB to connect. MIDI control sends MIDI data to computer, DAW picks it up (set to receive the data from USB) and receives the data (If on record, then it saves the data receive in MIDI format), DAW send MIDI data to VSTi, VSTi then determines how to process the MIDI data to sound. VSTi sends the sound package to the DAW, the DAW sends sound package to audio processor, audio processor converts digital data to analog, speakers deliver the sound. That is the chain at a very high level.

Your system should be able to handle it. However, you will most likely get latency in the sound as that part has less to do with the processing power and more to do with pure IO and the digital audio conversion (DAC). If you get the controller to work, and you can get it to receive/record the MIDI notes, but the latency keeps you from playing it live, then it is your audio. Nothing more I can say. My understanding EAST WEST is pretty intense.

Good luck.

 

[rob aylestone]

You have lost the plot. The audio capabilities of on motherboard audio devices is pretty dreadful. Not remotely useful for quality audio, where we have line, mic and monitor speaker and headphone connections. An interface is a must nowadays, and virtually every one has its dedicated, low latency audio driver. In fact, i have an old favourite i cannot use, because there are no drivers any more that work on windows 10 or 11. Asio4all works but has terrible latency figures. Dedicated drivers can get down to less than 6mS or so on most computers. The problem is not your computer, but lack of properly designed drivers. There really are no generic asio drivers nowadays, hence why people constantly update the manufacturers ones as they offer better performance. The LABs vsti packages are small, and stripped down and work very well on slower computers running the windows generic audio drivers, but thats because they're designed that way. There is no point getting grumpy with us. We know even a modest interface is now a requirement for serious audio work. You may well have a flashy fast pc, but you are throttling it by trying to get decent latency from a very cheap audio section not designed to do what we require as standard.

Interfaces with decent drivers that are well written are essentials. There is no funny business. Look at all the popular interfaces. They all have purpose built drivers. Often these drivers are many issues old now, with better coding and more facilities. The reason asio4all exists is to cater for devices without proper drivers. Audio companies are NOT highway bandits, they are seriously doing what we want! You want a mega computer but are for some reason not buying an essential component. We cant help you because you wont listen. You may be very well versed on computers, but you are not making it easy to record audio without an interface. You will also find that loads of audio on the board devices suffer from bus noise, hums and greater than average noise figures. We get dozens of mp3s of odd buzzing noises that are so common on the $5 audio section in expensive computers.

Buy an interface, any interface, because even the cheapest are sooooo much better than the ones inside. In audio quality and latency. Sorry but you are free to disbelieve us, check out any audio forum and you will get the same results. Proper drivers for proper audio devices. My interface runs at 7mS with the manufacturers driver, and 33mS with asio4all!

 

[mbsmike]

You have lost the plot. The audio capabilities of on motherboard audio devices is pretty dreadful. Not remotely useful for quality audio, where we have line, mic and monitor speaker and headphone connections. An interface is a must nowadays, and virtually every one has its dedicated, low latency audio driver. In fact, i have an old favourite i cannot use, because there are no drivers any more that work on windows 10 or 11. Asio4all works but has terrible latency figures. Dedicated drivers can get down to less than 6mS or so on most computers. The problem is not your computer, but lack of properly designed drivers. There really are no generic asio drivers nowadays, hence why people constantly update the manufacturers ones as they offer better performance. The LABs vsti packages are small, and stripped down and work very well on slower computers running the windows generic audio drivers, but thats because they're designed that way. There is no point getting grumpy with us. We know even a modest interface is now a requirement for serious audio work. You may well have a flashy fast pc, but you are throttling it by trying to get decent latency from a very cheap audio section not designed to do what we require as standard.

Interfaces with decent drivers that are well written are essentials. There is no funny business. Look at all the popular interfaces. They all have purpose built drivers. Often these drivers are many issues old now, with better coding and more facilities. The reason asio4all exists is to cater for devices without proper drivers. Audio companies are NOT highway bandits, they are seriously doing what we want! You want a mega computer but are for some reason not buying an essential component. We cant help you because you wont listen. You may be very well versed on computers, but you are not making it easy to record audio without an interface. You will also find that loads of audio on the board devices suffer from bus noise, hums and greater than average noise figures. We get dozens of mp3s of odd buzzing noises that are so common on the $5 audio section in expensive computers.

Buy an interface, any interface, because even the cheapest are sooooo much better than the ones inside. In audio quality and latency. Sorry but you are free to disbelieve us, check out any audio forum and you will get the same results. Proper drivers for proper audio devices. My interface runs at 7mS with the manufacturers driver, and 33mS with asio4all!

This answer is spot on!

 

[ecc83]

Now, as I think is well know here...I am NOT a computer expert! I have however been infesting a few audio forums for over ten years and have learned a little bit.
That the $5 (I am being generous!) On Board Sound chips are no good for low latency, high quality audio has been known to me for most of that time. Fork! Why back in the day were people fitting Sound Blaster style cards? To get better sound quality, that's why. Unfortunately SBs were still not good for low latency and (here in UK) we did not see really good cards until the likes of M-Audio and their Delta range. These, OF COURSE had ASIO drivers and bloody good ones, in fact their latency performance has only been beaten by (some) USB interfaces in the last five years or so. 'We" had a very modest desktop with an M-A 2496 in it and son played a piano in Cubase with undetectable delay.

I do not know how this old retired valve amp jockey has long been aware of this and our PC expert friend not but it does not make it less true.

Maybe he can find a second hand Native Instruments KA6? Very stable ASIO drivers and beats the 2496 for latency. Son presently uses a MOTU M4. No problems there.

Dave.

 

[TimOD]

"I mean, Melodyne has not improved it's stability in 14 years when it could have, but nope, the program is still crash prone when you'd think that would have been eliminated in the last 10 years. (Why that hasn't been fixed is mind boggling considering not much has been improved feature wise since it was first introduced)."

Say what? I've been using Melodyne now for years, with no problem. I know I'm not alone. Perhaps a good-sized minority of people using it are having problems with it; I don't frequent the Melodyne forums so I wouldn't know. But I'd be surprised if that were the case. There certainly have been major improvements with Melodyne since it was introduced. Here's a quote from a review in SOS:

"Melodyne 5 has been a long time coming, but it’s hard to imagine anyone feeling disappointed with the results! This is another killer upgrade that massively improves the process of working with vocals, while adding some new creative powers too."

Sound On Sound, July 2020

"It should just play/record if the DAW is set up to use the native WIN Audio. Right? Anyway, it's clear I'm not going to find a solution without someone recommending the additional purchase when it's a totally unnecessary manufactured step. Thanks. Oh and here's something I composed. There's plenty more where that came from. Dread Just so you don't assume I'm some noob who has no idea how to even make music at all."
Holy shit! Nobody is assuming you're a "noob" (I hate that word); that's you getting really defensive because it's being explained very clearly what the problem is, and you don't want to listen, because you think you're getting ripped off somehow by the manufacturers of sound cards and outboard devices. The fact is is that those onboard audio devices that computer manufacturers put on their machines are designed for the average computer user who aint about to make multi-track recordings, and that's a fact. If you want to continue using them, by all means continue to do so . . . I realized about 16 years ago that the stock card on my HP Windows desktop was going to severely restrict my ability to do what I needed to do as far as making and recording music went. I went through a couple cards, buying what I could afford, and getting better results as I went, until about six years ago when I got the RME RayDat card. It was expensive! Just under a grand. But worth it, believe me, and there are plenty of people who will back me up on this here. Thirty two in, thirty two out, simultaneous, with MIDI in and out, TotalMix software to control everything in and out, with massive flexibility. Never have I had an issue with crashes or stability. It just works, and I never have to worry about it. They have legendary driver quality and stability with ASIO. By the way, listened to your tune while writing some of this. I ain't gonna judge the music, but showing that you did that doesn't make an argument for sticking with outmoded technology.

 

[ecc83]

I second Tim's post. Regarding M-Audio, back then with the PCI Delta cards they were among the best interfaces around and with excellent drivers. I always aspired to one of their 192 cards but never got there. We did buy a Fast Track Pro. Not bad for a very early USB interface but the mic pre were ****! (FussyWire ruled the AI roost but I never had a PC with a 1394 port. The tech tended to self destruct anyway!)

The world and PCs moved on and PCI slots became fewer and fewer on MOBOs being supplanted by PCIe. I actually emailed M-A and asked when they would be producing PCIe versions of the Delta range. "Never" was the reply and M-Audio was absorbed into the Avid maw and to this day have virtually disappeared from the project audio market.

I faffed about with a few other USB interfaces F'rite and Tascam and Behringer but nothing had the stable. low latency drivers of the 2496 until that is I found the NI KA6!
Luuuuvre an RME but simply cannot justify the expense.

Dave.