Art YSM-1 vs. Wharfedale 8.2a

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travelin travis

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I did some comparison's with my Wharf 8.2a's and supposedly rebadged Yorkville YSM1i, Art YSM-1's. I know Bleyrad already covered this in the big Wharf thread so I'll just say that I agree with everything he said in his own comparison. One thing I'll add though is that the Art/York's tweeter sounds kind of crunchy. At high volume, it even noticeably distorts a little (maybe alot to audiophile ears). One song that I found which made this very obvious is The Eagles, Life In The Fast Lane. The intro guitar part sounds extra bright and crunchy. The louder the volume, the more apparent the crunchiness. Boost the eq a bit in 1k-2k, and it's distortion city. I really don't know if the York's and Art's are the same speaker but all the comments that I've read about the York's seem to hold true for the pair of Art's that I have. If any of you own the Yorkville YSM1i, YSM1p, or Art YSM-1, maybe you could give a listen to that song and see if you notice the crunchiness.

Bleyrad, if you read this, I'm curious to know what you thought of the stock tweeters in the York's. I read back on your comments of the York's and your comparison with the Wharf's. I saw that you did end up replacing the woofer and tweeter in the York's. Maybe you experienced the crunchiness too? I have'nt found anything to complain about with the woofer yet but I'm curious to know why you ended up changing it too. My main concerns with these monitors so far is the crunchy sounding tweeters and the overall slightly scouped sound. I still need to try some mixing to see how things translate but it's kind of difficult to keep myself focused right now.

I've been trying to keep myself busy to keep my mind off of the loss of a dear friend. The last couple of days have been a big blurr and I needed to get my head into something else for a bit so I've been listening to music all night/morning to give myself a break.
 
What power amp did you use with the ART SLM-1 monitors? That makes all the difference.

I believe Bleyrad replaced the woofer and tweeter in the Wharfs, not the Yorkies, as I read it... unless I missed a post.

The stock Yorkvilles/ARTs are some of the best passive nearfields I’ve heard in 25+ years of listening on more brands than I can remember. They are definitely for the near-field though, and this is where they shine. Pushing them much above 85 dB and trying to fill a room with sound is not what they do best. Yet if you're hearing distortion at any level I would first suspect the power amp.

By the way, the Yorkvilles and ARTs are the same product... both made in Canada by Yorkville, which now own ART.

~Tim
 
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Thats interesting, you've listened to that many brands.
I picked up some Yorks from all the good press and less negative press here.
and well...I quite looking, so they satisfied me. not a problem yet.

if i get some cash for gearlust I'd still like to upgrade to some DYN's..but thats a 2X $$ drop.
 
No, I have'nt ran a frequency response test. I don't have a measurement mic or rta software and I know my room is'nt great any way. I did listen to the room response file from Ethan Winer's website and heard a dip at around 150 hz, which others have mentioned with the ysm-1's......or did others hear a bump? I heard a dip. Other than that, I've just been listening to music that I'm very familiar with and watching out for anything unusual. The amp I'm using is an Art SLA-2. I also have a Hafler TA1600 that I have'nt had a chance to try out yet.

When playing Ethan's room response file, the Art's reproduced everything from 40hz up, with a slight dip at around 150hz (to my ears). The Wharf's just made mud. After listening to the Art's for awhile, I realized that I've heard some similar sounding speakers before. The Wharf's were my first pair of real monitors or so I thought. Before getting them I used a pair of Edirol MA-10DBK's. From what I remember, they have a pretty similar sound to the Art's. Round lows, kind of crunchy hi's, and a little scouped in the mids. They were pretty damn small and did'nt put out alot of volume or reach down quite as deep or as hi as the Art's. For what the Edirol's cost though, they worked and for someone that is mixing a few tracks at home in a tight space and on a tight budget, I'd recommend them for the money ($130 a pair?). I know it sounds like a joke but they really did'nt sound bad after I adjusted the bass and treble controls. If I remember right, I turned the lo's down a hair and slightly bumped the hi's. I think the "d" in the model name is for digital, which is a feature that I never used, and the "bk" is for a black cabinet finish. I'd imagine the other MA-10 models would sound the same.

Maybe thedude was right when he said that any monitors under $1k are'nt true monitors. The Art's tweeter issue seems like a major issue to me. I do like actually being able to hear reverb tails but I don't like how some guitar parts get a radical tone change. The tweeter does'nt reproduce those guitar part's accurately. I can deal with the slightly scouped mids because I'd rather have the vox move *slightly* forward in the mix than to the back seat after spending alot of time getting it where I want it. With the Wharf's, I can't stand not being able to hear decent bass, the hyped mids don't work for me, and the lack of detail leaves me guessing when it comes time to adjust hi eq and reverb decay. After you get over the Wharf's nice sounding but not accurate mids, what are you left with? Bad bass and not enough detail in the hi's. My ears don't like the Art's crunchy tweeter but at least I can hear when I'm rolling off hi eq, adjusting reverb decay, and cutting a little boominess out of a kick drum. I can see the crunchiness being used as an aid in knowing when there's too much going on in the 1k+ frequencies but I still don't like it.

If I could go back, I'd just keep the Edirols and the cheapo 990 mic and make the best of it. The sad truth is that my mixing skills are just as bad as they were way back when I started looking for decent monitors and my musicianship has definately suffered and that's mostly because I've spent too much time chasing gear and not enough playing guitar, recording, and mixing.

I'd like to hear bleyrad's thoughts on the ysm1 tweeter and I'd like to know how everything is working out after changing the woofers and tweeters. I think that if I can get the tweeter issue worked out, I'll be done with chasing monitors.

Btw, crunchy = edgey = not smooth.
 
I’d be interested to hear from others using the SLM-1/SLA-2 combo. If you’re really cranking it, I could see getting some non-musical distortion. I have my doubts about the ART recommended pairing of these products. The SLA-1 100-watt amp was the original mate for those monitors. I’ve always heard good reports with the SLM-1/SLA-1 combo. I’m not yet a believer in the SLA-2, but that could change.

Yorkville recommended a power amp between 70 minimum & 100 maximum watts continuous for the original YSM-1. I don’t know if there are any component changes between the original YSM-1 and the YSM1i/SLM-1. There is no amp recommendation made in current literature.

I have my Yokvilles (ARTs) paired with a vintage (1981) Yamaha P2050 power amp. 50 watts per channel might seem a bit underpowered, but this particular amp is conservatively rated, with lots of headroom and very low distortion at full power.

My Yorks are really clean and accurate at the moderate levels of near-field listening... no fatigue at all from brittle or edgy highs with this setup.

~Tim
:)
 
Beck said:
I’d be interested to hear from others using the SLM-1/SLA-2 combo. If you’re really cranking it, I could see getting some non-musical distortion. I have my doubts about the ART recommended pairing of these products. The SLA-1 100-watt amp was the original mate for those monitors. I’ve always heard good reports with the SLM-1/SLA-1 combo. I’m not yet a believer in the SLA-2, but that could change.

Yorkville recommended a power amp between 70 minimum & 100 maximum watts continuous for the original YSM-1. I don’t know if there are any component changes between the original YSM-1 and the YSM1i/SLM-1. There is no amp recommendation made in current literature.

I have my Yokvilles (ARTs) paired with a vintage (1981) Yamaha P2050 power amp. 50 watts per channel might seem a bit underpowered, but this particular amp is conservatively rated, with lots of headroom and very low distortion at full power.

My Yorks are really clean and accurate at the moderate levels of near-field listening... no fatigue at all from brittle or edgy highs with this setup.

~Tim
:)
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Hey Tim. From what I've read about the SLA-2, it's supposed to be a pretty good power amp. It's just a higher power form of the SLA-1 from what I understand. I don't run it very loud and would have a hard time believing that it's introducing any distortion into the monitoring path. The SLA-2 is Art's recommended amp for the SLM-1 monitors. Maybe the crunchiness in the tweeter has something to do with the crossover point of the SLM-1's. I'm gonna pick up some smaller gauge speaker wire and try out the Hafler amp and see if there is any change in the crunchiness of the tweeter. If you get a chance, play the song "Life In The Fast Lane" by the Eagles. Listen especially to the guitar intro and see if you notice anything that I've mentioned.
 
I tried out the TA1600 today. The SLA-2 sounds much fuller at around the same volume (I have no way to check volumes precisely), from low volume to loud. The TA1600 runs out of juice pretty quick. I was pretty surprised that the Art monitors can take about everything that the SLA-2 can give. I also compared the 10 and 12 awg speaker wire and did'nt hear a bit of difference. I don't have a way to quickly A/B them though.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
The SLA-2 is Art's recommended amp for the SLM-1 monitors.
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Yeah, I just realized there was a typo in my last post. When I said amp recommendation, I really meant to say watt recommendation. I know they recommend the SLA-2 now. I just thought it was odd that they used to recommend a 100-watt amp maximum to power the original YSM-1. Of course I’m sure it wont hurt anything as long as you aren't cranking them to the threshold of pain. :D

I'll have to borrow that Eagles CD from a friend of mine and give "Life in the Fast Lane” a listen on my setup... I'm curious now.

Anyway, you have good taste in monitors.

~Tim
:)
 
I use the ART SLA-1/ SLM-1's combo. It's really a matter of learning to compensate for the speakers' idiosyncrasies.

I find them to be a bit over-pronounced in the high end, and bass light. So, mix accordingly. I have thought about hanging some tissue paper over the tweeters like some old studio guys say they used to do with NS-10's. Maybe I'll try that sometime.


No, they're not perfect, but they're pretty good. Tune your ears to them and they will serve you well.
 
omtayslick said:
I use the ART SLA-1/ SLM-1's combo. It's really a matter of learning to compensate for the speakers' idiosyncrasies.

I find them to be a bit over-pronounced in the high end, and bass light. So, mix accordingly. I have thought about hanging some tissue paper over the tweeters like some old studio guys say they used to do with NS-10's. Maybe I'll try that sometime.


No, they're not perfect, but they're pretty good. Tune your ears to them and they will serve you well.
Click to expand...

Bass light mine are not. Definately not. Maybe it's your amp. I'm gonna give that tissue paper thing a try but I'm getting pretty used to the hi's now. Now if I could get my placement straightened out. I need monitor stands.
 
TravisinFlorida said:
Bass light mine are not. Definately not. Maybe it's your amp.
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Could be. I have one of the earlier packages with the SLA-1 amp. It has half the power of the SLA-2 they are currently packaging with the speakers.
 
Mine have plenty of bass as well -- just as advertised, and I'm using an amp with half the watts per channel as the SLA-1.

Room cancellations are a common problem with bass frequencies.
 
Also, "plenty of bass" varies with the ear of the beholder. This is not a complaint, I like these speakers and they work well for me. They have bass that you hear, but not bass that you feel thumping in your chest.
 
omtayslick said:
Also, "plenty of bass" varies with the ear of the beholder. This is not a complaint, I like these speakers and they work well for me. They have bass that you hear, but not bass that you feel thumping in your chest.
Click to expand...

I would say that the bass is'nt over emphasized, boomy, rumbly, etc. but it is pretty clear. I can hear about everything thru these that I can hear thru my sony mdr-v600 headphones. I was in awe the first time I put on the sony's and actually heard all the lo stuff that I'd been missing before.
 
i got me a pair of good ol yorky YSM-1s and am shopping around for an nice, affordable amp to power them. the 30 year old sansui receiver i use now looks cool but is noisy as hell even without any input. i can get a SLA-1 amp for around $200 usd. would this be my "best" bet. (or at least a good one)
i have also been recomended the crown d150 (sweet, but a little hard to find), samson amps, hafler p series, adcom and varios marrantz models. any suggestions, preffernces, bang for the buck, etc.
thanks in adv.
-matt
 
mattyc said:
. i can get a SLA-1 amp for around $200 usd. would this be my "best" bet. (or at least a good one)
-matt
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Nothing wrong with the sla-1 in my opinion. And that's a good price.
 
omtayslick said:
I have thought about hanging some tissue paper over the tweeters like some old studio guys say they used to do with NS-10's. Maybe I'll try that sometime.
No, they're not perfect, but they're pretty good. Tune your ears to them and they will serve you well.
Click to expand...

rent, The Making of Pump/Aerosmith video...it has the tissue on the NS10 tweeters, I don't know if it's one-ply or two-ply though?? Clearview or Clearmountina studios..a clip in the movie, funny imo. :p .......

isn't that like putting a bag over your wifes head? because you don't really like the way she looks. hehe

yes, I ran some tests with toilet paper on some tweeters that were too tin-ie, too bright...it changes the sound like anything else would. what ever gets you high...

agree the yorks aren't perfect; I'd love some DYNS..
but the Yorks are on my "great-cheap stuff list" imo. damn nice speaker.

like the FMR RNC and DMP3 combo, Ethans DIY bass traps...
 
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