Are these lyrics too vauge (yet again?)

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Chris Shaeffer

Chris Shaeffer

Peavey ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hi Everyone,

I'm starting to feel like a BBS loudmouth posting all over the place, but I think I'm getting addicted. :)

This is another new tune- the lyrics are pretty rough at the moment and there are definately parts that I think need fixing. As always, I wonder if what I'm saying makes any sense to anyone but me.

Musically this one is quite a departure for me. Other than voice it is completely electronic. :eek:

Let me know what you think, if you have a moment.

Thanks!
Chris


“Wishing Well”

Father, may I please have a shiny coin
To throw into the waters down below?
Such a little gift that would satisfy
The wishes of a boy long ago

But the passing of the years like the eagles fly
Have left the wishing well’s water low
And why I’ve come again to these muddy banks
Like a wide-eyed child I’ll never know.

(Chorus)
But I’ll throw another dime in the Wishing Well
And watch until the ripples fade away.
There’s nothing in this world that I wouldn’t give
But I won’t give my dream away

Mother, may I please stay up one more hour
To finish watching my favorite show?
Everything I see reminds me of my wish
As it comes true ever so slow

But its been a long day since my sunrise
And now my hair is white as snow
I’m worried that soon I shall fall asleep
With only my children left to know

(Chorus)
That I threw another dime in the Wishing Well
And to watch until my ripples fade away
There’s nothing in this world that I didn’t give
But I didn’t give my dream away.

Sitting once again by the sunny waters
Watching my people come and go
I whisper in the ears of the passers by
The only thing they need to know

(Chorus)
To throw another dime in the Wishing Well
And watch until the ripples fade away
What is there to life if you haven’t lived?
What are you afraid to give away?
 
Hi Chris,

good lyrics! They don't seem so vague to me.
For me it's about an old man looking back on is life, knowing it's too late to change it. He had a dream but as hard he wished it just didn't come true. Reminds me of that man that prays his whole life to god: "Please, let me win the lottery!" and after years and years of waiting the answer of god is: "Gimme a chance! Buy a ticket!"
Old joke but I think this is what the song is about. He wished and wished, but did nothing but wishing.

At least this is my definition. But I think the really good lyrics are those that let the listener enough space to find his own sense in them.

The only thing I would change to make it a little bit more... hm... rhythmic is the part in the chorus:
And watch until the ripples fade away.
How about: And watch the ripples fade away.

Also:
"Everything I see reminds me of my wish" seems to bee a little bit long. When I read the lyrics I stumble at that part.

Good song! Wanna hear it!

Geetings
Monomaniac
 
Monomaniac said:
The only thing I would change to make it a little bit more... hm... rhythmic is the part in the chorus
Click to expand...

That might not be needed, you can't say untill you heard the song...

I like the lyrics. Btw, in my opinion it doesn't matter if they are vague or not. Unless you really want to make a point offcourse. Watch the movies by david lynch. I really love them, but hardly even try to get the story... Doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is the emotion you invoke in the listener/reader. And your lyrics make me feel even sadder, more pathetic and -another word I'm to tired to think of-. Anyway, pretty good job. Felt like reading a poem.
 
Very Cool! I can see what Mono was saying about the old man.

"Sitting once again by the sunny waters
Watching my people come and go
I whisper in the ears of the passers by
The only thing they need to know"

This makes me think - Don't give up on your dreams, or maybe - Don't let life pass you by, sorta thingy ma bobber.
But it isn't depressing to me at all, It's just.....Reflective.



:) :)

Matt
 
Chris Shaeffer said:
Hi Everyone,

I'm starting to feel like a BBS loudmouth posting all over the place, but I think I'm getting addicted. :)
Click to expand...

Yo Loudmouth!!! :D

Post as much as you can, I've noticed the bbs is sort of dead this week.....We need all we can get!! :D
 
If you feel they are too vague maybe you should think about trying this:

possibly the thing could work

i could add some thoughts how

maybe try the other thing too

that should help the other problems
 
Well, now! LOL!

:D @ Kompewtur

This will be the last thread that I fret that my lyrics are too vauge!

Well, mono and and mgiles, you hit the mark I was shooting for close enough. There's a second and third layer of meaning in there that IS really vague, but you nailed the main one.

Your point takes the day, Roel: vagueness doesn't matter. While I do have a point in the song, I'm not really concerned that it come across to each and every listener. Emotional response should be the goal- and that comes from the combination of music, melody, and lyrics.

Vox: We'll see how soon I can get that song "done." I'm being silly again, but I'm hoping to have it done by next week to "impress" a lady I'm interested in. :rolleyes: It's my first serious attempt at electronica and there are still some holes in the music- I'm trying to figure out what it needs to thicken up a few places. (Corn starch, maybe?) I might just break out the old Les Paul and see what it has to offer the song. :D

Thanks, you guys.
Chris
 
Lyrics

If something works...don't fix it.
I like the sentiment, personally, I wouldn't change a thing.
Nice Work Chris.
 
Hi Chris,

I agree with old guy, don't fix what ain't broke.

While reading your thread, I mused how I would handle
the basic elements of your song.

So here goes;

Elements: Reflection, passage of time/life, first person
(ie. "I") and water.

I would tie the passage of time to changes in the characteristics
of the water. For this example I'll choose a river.
eg. childhood - clear stream before spring runoff
adolesence- torrent stream full of uncontrolled
energy
maturity- settled stream silted by spring runoff
aged- water clearing but at low level
In my interpretation, "I" would visit a spot on the river bank
and lyrical observations about the river's changes would
dovetail with "I"'s circumstances.

The chorus would reverberate the theme of unfulfilled expectations.

You mentioned you are doing this piece in electronica.
I am assuming this is so and am proceeding as if I was
doing same.

I would count the rythmn in 8s rather than 4s.

This would tend to slow the lyrics down compared to
tempo, thus creating a certain tension on the flow.

Reflection tends to suggest use of a minor key such as
Em for effect.

Again, please don't interpret this stuff as a rewrite of
what looks like a good piece of work, but you commented
on my "Tanya and Me" thread about my writing style
and I am giving you a peak into how my head works.

good luck with the lady.
 
Constructive criticism

It's worth working with. I like the chorus a lot. If you are inclined to try a few things, I would consider the following:

-listen to analog4

-the lyrics do make me wonder what you are wishing for

-1st verse: it's not the coin that the boy is wishing for

-2d verse: the image of a wishing well is a different image than the "muddy banks" of a river, which I found a little distracting

-3d verse: "as it comes true ever so slow" feels a little forced, and I'm really wishing here that I knew more about the wish

-4th: "with only my children left to know" also feels forced


The last verse and last version of the chorus are compelling, but very broad. Are we wishing for the courage to live our lives according to our hearts?
 
Hey Slim and Analog,

This is fantastic! You guys are addressing my concerns exactly. I was worried that the metaphors of these lyrics were too mixed and inconsistent.

Analog: Thanks for the peek. You've given me a good bit to think about. I like how you dissected and developed the metaphor so that you knew where to emphasize what. I don't usually do that, but I'm going to give it a try.

Timing and keys, I now realize, are things that I just tend to intuit. I'll have to take what you just said and see how it over lays the song. It is in a minor key and I think the tune tends towards the 8 count rather than the four, but I didn't really do it intentionally. Hmmm...time to dig out the magnifying glass. :)

Slim: Good catch on the double use of the word wish in the first verse. You're right, the wish is not the coin and that's confusing. I'm trying to leave the wish in the hands of the listener while writing the rest of the song around what I percieve as the wish. That's where the rest of the inconsistencies you noted come from.

I'm glad you pointed them out because is makes it clear that I have buried what the wish stands for way too deep- I don't even think that I hint at it directly at all. The only place I come close is the line where "What is there to life if you haven't lived?" is being related to throwing a coin in and making a wish.

I think I'm going to take a close look at these lyrics and see if I can tweak them to be a tad more consistent. The recording of the version I have now just needs some solo parts and it will be done- but I still haven't gotten the C1, yet, so I may be redoing the vox anyway. :D

Old man: Thanks for the good comments. I'm glad the lyrics hit you in a good way. Thanks for reading 'em!

Thanks for your time and comments, guys. I really appreciate your input. Trying to write lyrics that cover 2 levels of meaning is a fun challenge and this is helping me out a lot.

Take care,
Chris
 
What up new in this forum

If I may I would like to make a comment on vagueness in lyrics.


It's my personal opinion that vagueness is best. It keeps the listener guessing and maintains their interest or at least for this listener. However it does depend on the song

I'll use good old Bob Dylan as a reference only since alot a folks tend to agree that he was pretty talented at writing lyrics. Take out some of those old bob dylan albums and give them another sonic gandering. I think what you'll find is that in half the songs you'll have not the slighest idea what he is talking about. His metaphors are often off the wall. They are exotic and psychotic. Sometimes it seems that there is no "consistancy" to his metaphors at all, as if each line is standing on it's own and telling its own little story. So thats half the songs...

The other half of his songs are extremely blunt.. you know exactly what he is talking about. So go figure

an example of the former could be "ballad of the thin man" it's extremely vague.. If you can listen to that and know what he's talking about your full of it.. I don't even think the charactor in the song knows what it's about nor perhaps even bob himself and thats the idea.


an example of the latter, Maggie's farm.... you know exactly what he's saying ... He hates his job.


Personally I think that your song is good, Actually i should say it has lots of potential but it is in a state of limbo as it sort of floats inbetween these two categories as if , as your inquiry for comments about vagueness implies, your are indecisive and you are hesitating to write the song in one way because it will be too vague and the other way because you don't want to say to much. I can sense the hesitation of the writing only because I have written many songs that are sort of in this limbo state. My personal opinion once again, is pick away and stick to your guns, If you want to be metaphorical than be it.. Exhaust the metaphor so to speak and if not then come out and say it bluntly. Figure out what your after and then go get it. That way there will be a confidence in your writing that wasn't there before.

I think that sitting around asking people in forums about writing is kinda a waste of time unless you post the mp3. (nevertheless you got my opinion I guess anyhow) I agree with the person that said you can't know what will work until you here the melody and even then it's purely subjective. I see alot of people that want songs to read like poems in this forum and others when they read lyrics without the music to accompany it. "Stumbling over lines" etc. I challenge them to look at lyrics of their favorite artists and see if they don't stumble over the lines when there is no music. It's a song not a poem , the two are similar but there is a difference.

Hey take what I said with a grain of salt, or take it to heart, or forget about it .... whatever's clever. And far as my opinion about potential and what not in your song. Remember that I don't here the music. It could be great the way it is! Sometimes lyrics that look and sound horrible coming off the tongue from paper hold up great in the song... Don't take my opinion or anyone else's too seriously!


Sorry that was so long, I guess I sort went off on a rant that was n't planned


-Evan
 
nave said:

I think that sitting around asking people in forums about writing is kinda a waste of time unless you post the mp3.
Click to expand...

Hi Evan! Welcome to the board! I see you're from New Jersey- believe it or not I love that state. I've spent some really good times down in the southern part. The Pine Barrens, I think they're called.

I hear you on the bit about the mp3's and I agree to a point. I posted these lyrics, though, because I wondered if the words delivered the meaning that I intended them to. That can be judged by reading them alone. Analog4's breakdown of how he would approach this metaphor is *superb*, as well, and didn't require listening to the song.

Ultimately, I'll make the decisions about what to change or not in the song based on what the whole song needs, not just the lyrics. Getting opinions that aren't colored by how the song sounds is actually very helpful in this case.

And I think of this as the Song and Lyric writing forum. Sometimes its good to get advice on the lyrics before you arrange and record the whole song, eh?

Thanks for the read and comments, by the way. And never mind about the "rant." I also tend to run off at the keys myself from time to time. :rolleyes:

Take care,
Chris
 
Hi everybody,

on my first post I mentioned two lines in the lyrics, that seemed not to fit in the "Rhythm". I agree with you (roel, nave), that I can't judge the song like a poem. And maybe these parts fit into the song very well and maybe it's neccessary for the "rhythm" that they stay as they are. (By the way: It's a little bit hard for me to explain what I think in english, so if it reads funny to you you're allowed to laugh :) )
All I wanted to mention was that these two lines are ... other than the others (understand?) , and as I read the lyrics I "stumbled" at this parts. The message is: Change them if you want, if they're better the way they are, let them be. That's just my opinion.
I usually give my lyrics to my frieds and they tell me if some lines are too long or too short to fit in the flow of the reading. And mostly this advices help.

Sorry if I confused you with my thoughts.

Chris: I've heard some of your songs and I truly like them!

Bye
Monomaniac
 
Well, I ran out of gas recording this song. What a good challenge! I decided to put some guitars in there to fills the holes that I just couldn't cover with my VST synth stuff. When I got to the instrumental section it was just over. I know what I want there but its going to have to wait until I'm a bit more inspired.

So, since I probably won't be getting back to this song for at least a couple weeks (gotta work on stuff that I want to put on CD) I thought I'd at least post a working mix in case anyone wants to hear how the lyrics sit with the music.

Its here



Or visit this page for lo-fi and streaming. Its called "Wishing Well (Draft)"

http://artists2.iuma.com/IUMA/Bands/Chris_Shaeffer/index-2.html

Mixwise almost everything is there, but I didn't get into automating anything yet. You'll notice where something should have been brought up to fill the space but wasn't. The vocals are good enough to mix with but not really keepers. I hope I have them up loud enough for you to hear.

And feel free to laugh at the pathetic "solo" section. You'll be able to tell what I want there, but also how uninspired I was to finish composing it by that point. ;) I think that was at 2am yesterday. I tried to redo it after work today and couldn't hit the right notes to save my life. Oh well.

Monomaniac: Yeah, I figure that reading the words on screen is very different than hearing them in the song. Your post didn't confuse me at all. And thanks listening to some of my songs and letting me know you liked them, too! Its always good to hear that you aren't the only one who likes your songs. ;)

Take care,
Chris
 
nave

Hey, chris appreciate the warm welcome. Sometimes in these message forums I get worried that people might get the wrong idea about what I'm saying and think I'm sounding cold. After all, you just have the text to go by where as if your talking someone in person there are the other factors that we sometimes take for granted such as tone of voice and facial expression. I guess thats what :) those are for though, even though i think they get a bit over used and lose there meaning somewhat. Reading someone's text is a little bit like reading lyrics without the music, the tone of voice and facial expressions being the music and the text , well they are just the lyrics.

Anyway, I live in the Pine Barrens, or actually whats left of them anyway. Most of where I am is alot like southern California, just rows of houses and stores. Everyday a piece of the Pine Barrens gets cut down. In my town there is a county park called Cattus Island where the last couple of miles of Pine Barrens in this town stands. I guess the Pine Barrens aren't so "barren" anymore, maybe we need a new name.

On another note about Pine Barrens our at least the word "pine." BTW, I never or at least rarely think of the phrase "pine barren" since there is no actuall town called the pine barrens and the pine barrens make up a large section of towns in southern jersey. I would never say I'm from the Pine Barrens.... The reason why I'm telling you this is a pretty funny one so bare with me.

When I first read your post I was shocked to see the word pine barrens and not because someone on the web new about the pine barrens... after all the web makes the world a much smaller place. So whats the Reason? The reason I was shocked is because just before (immediately before 5 mins tops) I logged on and read your message, I had just finished writing a song called "Pine Cone." It has nothing to do with "Pine Barrens" or even pine cones really. The topic of the song is actually about the third eye , or as pop culture has recently deamed it , the "Sixth Sense." The reason the song is called "pine cone" is because the "Sixth Sense" is said to originate in a small gland lodged in your brain called the Pineal Gland. It's called Pineal because it is shaped like a pine cone. The Gland is a little bit like the little toe; once usefull when we swung on trees gripping to branches with our feet, it serves virtually no purpose anymore and is deamed by the scientist to be "vestigial" or left over. Scientists really have no idea what the gland was used for when it functioned in us at one time long ago.... However, most speculate that it was in fact a Psychic reciever of some sorts.

So thats my story , pretty strange huh.... Is it a coincidence or some sort of psychic sign that the song is a keeper? Watch it turn out to be the song that makes me lol. Anyway whatever it is I thought it was an interesting story worth sharing. Every now and then those wierd things happen , Ya know? this i guess is just one of 'em for me....

Take care Chris ,

Good luck with your tune (I listen to it in a bit in & if I feel I can help I'll be back)


-Evan
 
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