Anything better than a Beta 58 for rehearsals?

  • Thread starter Thread starter RezN8
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RezN8

RezN8

Blick-um, blick-um...
Hey crew, I'm (reluctantly) letting a new band use my spot for rehearsals and I'm running into the typical problems of using a PA in a small space.

Right now all the vocalists (4) are using SM58s and some of them are too soft-spoken to gain up before feedback.

So I was thinking....

Does anyone know of a better mic than the Beta 58, where I can get much more gain before it starts squealing? What I noticed about the Beta is that there was a decent amount of gain before feedback - much better than the normal SM58s.

Any suggestions appreciated!

Thanks, Rez
 
Tell them to stop singing like pussies. Surely you aren't considering spending money on them are you. Or do they pay you pretty good to practice there?
 
yep. They need to learn how to sing bro. The beta should do em fine.
 
the mics should be fine. if you do wanna try a different mic get a couple sennheiser e-835s. i like how they cut through compared to a 58 in a small room. if its just a small practice place with vocals only you could try flipping the speaker (+) (-) terminals on the cabinet or wire the speaker cables backwards. it will sound thinner with reverse polarity but it wont feedback near as much and its only practice. i have worked with a singer for the last 11 years that sings like a mouse and has his mic set like a cannon if you just talk into it. i dont think anything is wrong with that approach. he was ablw to sing 4 or 5 nights in a row where some other singers couldnt take the strain and cried after one night of singing .
 
gemsbok said:
if its just a small practice place with vocals only you could try flipping the speaker (+) (-) terminals on the cabinet or wire the speaker cables backwards. it will sound thinner with reverse polarity but it wont feedback near as much and its only practice.
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Changing the polarity won't make any difference unless you only change half of the monitors. But the cancelation will make the vocals hard to hear. That is useless.
 
it will cancel mostly low stuff and does work for my set up. ive tried it many times. im not fond of the thinner sound but feedback will be cut in half. in a small rehersal place your probably not using monitors and dont forget the mic will most often be in front of the P.A.speaker. the loop created makes the feedback. in a club the mics are back behind the FOH speakers. i guess it depends on the rehersal set up.
 
Tnx 4 replies & suggestions.

JonnyC - I guess you're right. I shouldn't waste the money. The bass player is a good friend and talked me down to $20 an hour. It's actually more work than it's worth - lugging out the PA, setting it up, moving all the gear around to fit everyone, making sure everyone is comfortable, etc., etc.

So far I've been able to get the vocals close - but I'd really like to get them to ride above the band w/o feedback and LEAVE THE ROOM so I could do other things.

Biggest problem seems to be the two back up female vocalists. It surprises me how many people call themsleves singers but don't know anything about projection or mic technique.

Next problem is the guitarist. This guy is obviously a pro in many aspects. However, he sets up and puts the mic so that it faces DIRECTLY at the speaker behind him. All was fine until he bent down to mess with his pedals "SQUEAL!!!!" ... you figure these pros would know better.

Then there's the lead vox. You say OK- give me a mic check, and in a low "inside voice" he says 'check one, two'. Then when the band starts he belts it out 60 decibels louder and wonders why it's all distorted.

They've only come through twice and already I've got a blown speaker, a and a cracked cymbal. I spend about an hour setting up (no charge). I need to get out of this.
 
Rez. I feel your pain. I used to be in a band and our budget was next to nothing. Sound suffered and the rehearsal vibe was seldom warm and fuzzy. The only suggestions I can offer you are Personal Monitor Systems and "be the boss".

In-ear monitoring can totally transform your room dynamic. When there are no speakers to cause loops, no feedback! You buy the transmitter and say 6-8 receivers, then they supply their own earbuds. (I hate sharing ear wax!)

It seems evident to me from your brief description that these folks aren't pros. Otherwise, they wouldn't be making these kinds of mistakes and using these kinds of techniques. You should make them do what will benefit the sound most. When they hear how good they can be, despite their position in the room, they'll thank you. Care to post a diagram of the current setup of the room? Maybe we can help.
 
I don't understand why everyone has the monitors behind them. That is the problem.

Put the monitors in front of the band facing them. (and thus, facing the back of the mic) In a live situation, the monitors are on the floor in front of the mics. Having the monitors at mic level behind the mics is just asking for trouble.
 
chris-from-ky said:
Rez. I feel your pain. I used to be in a band and our budget was next to nothing. Sound suffered and the rehearsal vibe was seldom warm and fuzzy. The only suggestions I can offer you are Personal Monitor Systems and "be the boss".

In-ear monitoring can totally transform your room dynamic. When there are no speakers to cause loops, no feedback! You buy the transmitter and say 6-8 receivers, then they supply their own earbuds. (I hate sharing ear wax!)

It seems evident to me from your brief description that these folks aren't pros. Otherwise, they wouldn't be making these kinds of mistakes and using these kinds of techniques. You should make them do what will benefit the sound most. When they hear how good they can be, despite their position in the room, they'll thank you. Care to post a diagram of the current setup of the room? Maybe we can help.
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Tnx Chris- unfortunately, there's no budget for the in-ear gear. I could run a line from the PA to the recording desk and give everyone headphones...

We used to do live jams and rehearse in the spot all the time, and believe me, we were much louder than this band, but the set up was a little different and everyone would singas loud as they needed to to be heard.

I switched everything around to set up for recording a few months ago. I moved the PA out, added gobos, etc.

For this band to do their rehearsing, I had to remove my housemate's drum set to accomodate the keys (double stack 88-keys), bring back the PA and set it all up. It really isn't worth all the trouble -- and I'm not about to set up the way I used to just 4 them.

Tnx again, Rez
 
I had a problem with this sort of thing, in that I was being stepped on and didn't know it. I gave a friend a good deal for his band, and now I'm no longer that owner of the studio, I'm a friend with a studio, that's where the dynamic of the whole session was lost. The client (friend) will think it's all fun and games, will disrespect your equipment, and will forget that your time is money.

What I learned from all this, is be prepared to say "no." Let them know things will happen the way you say they will, not what's comfortable for them. $150 dollars in beer later, I know longer give them soda or beer, only chips and water, and I set time restraints on their practice and also run all mics through my mixer and they each have headphones.
 
Farview said:
I don't understand why everyone has the monitors behind them. That is the problem.

Put the monitors in front of the band facing them. (and thus, facing the back of the mic) In a live situation, the monitors are on the floor in front of the mics. Having the monitors at mic level behind the mics is just asking for trouble.
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I've got the wedges for monitors on the floor. That's not the issue. The problem was I set everything up for them the way they set up the first time, but they all moved around when I was in the back room digging up another mic for a new second fem bvox.

There was a new drummer too, and he only plays at one volume, which is too loud for this particular band.
 
AUDIX OM7 = most gain befor feadback

Audix OM ;) 7 = Most Gain Before Feadback.
 
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I dig the Audix myself... we use them for vocal sat all of our live shows. We bring our own as every place seems to have crap or 58s. Though, it sounds like you have more than you want with these guys, so I wouldn't bother with the cost.

As for a feedback killer... the guy who runs sound for our jazz group uses one and I hate it. Everything sounds like it is going through a cheap phone as it notches the crap out of everything. The only thing in that vein I have found to work really well are the Peavey feedback indicators.They don't do anything but tell you where the feed back is at and lets you do the EQ so as to not get the telephone effect.
 
I've heard lots of bad things about 'auto-feedback killers'... so I bought a couple of ART HQ231...(Dual 31 Band Graphic EQ)

When the system starts to feed back, the fader in question glows bright red and someone has to leg it to the box and turn that fader down a bit. You only have to do it 2 or 3 three times, huge improvement in gain over feedback, and as it's a 31 Band EQ there's no noticable change in audio quality

(we use a combination of Beta58s and standard 58s, with a whisper drummer who's always a good 6" away from the mic and strangely is always demanding more gain :rolleyes: )

http://www.directproaudio.com/product.cfm?directid=54129
 
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I suggested it for his rehearsal studio purposes. Id agree, live sound is a little more demanding but rehearsals? Nah...Actually, Ive always wondered by people just dont plug a mixer into a headphone amp and listen to vox via headphones? Easier on the ears and a more pleasant mix.
 
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