Anyone using isolated receptacles?

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punkin

punkin

Univalve & Avatar Speaks
Along with a couple killer deals on patch panels, (thanks to Frederic for clearing the aire on this btw) I've been offered a rediculous price on some Isobar Tripp Lite rack mount power strips. We're talking $2 each and they're new in the box!

They look real nice in that they have a front side on/off switch and isolated/switched outlets on the back and they're described as having built in AC Spike and Line Noise filtering. I'm cosidering using them so supply my racks. It just seems to me that unless everything (Computers, Guitar Amps, telephone, lava lamp etc.) is on this same "isolated" source that we might have a problem with difference in ground potentials.

I am I missing something?


Thanks.
 
Depends...if they're good for me then probobly not. There's only 5 which will work perfectly for my racks and cabinets...if they're not good for me we'll talk.

Do you have any insight?
 
Having everything on the same circuit eliminates at least that source of ground loops. But using separate strips doesn't prevent that (if that's part of the question) Daisy-chain or star' up to the strings power limit..
Wayne
 
Thanks Wayne...I think I'll snatch them up. Worse come to worse, I can unload them later.
 
mixsit said:
Having everything on the same circuit eliminates at least that source of ground loops. But using separate strips doesn't prevent that (if that's part of the question) Daisy-chain or star' up to the strings power limit..
Wayne

Mix,

I think you misunderstand ground loops. In as much as all of the ground wires tie together at the panel - there isn't a odd power ground loop and an even power ground loop (meaning leg one power - vrs leg 2 power). So there isn't a "this part" or "that source".

There is just a ground loop. If it's there - it's on all the grounds unless something strange has been done and they don't interconnect.

If you have a ground loop - and you check just the ground itself (with an oscilliscope for example) anywhere in the building - you'll see the dirty ground - this even if the circuit in question doesn't have any load on it.

The reason for this is that the ground has 2 (or more) different paths to ground.

Hooking gear up to one leg of the panel is a good method of designing a system from the get go so it doesn't exhibit problems - but it doesn't help any with ground loop issues.

The best bet is to find the reason for the ground loop - and solve that problem. Shy of that - rewiring and installing star grounds and isolated ground receptacles helps (note I say "helps" not solves the problem - this because you can also have RF (radio frequencies) transmit as a part of a ground loop issue - we used to trace them out with a 1950's Fender Mustang with the single coil pick-up.).

punkin,

The strips you're looking at might clean up things a bit - and the Faraday Shield will help if the problem is RF - but if you want clean you will probably need an isolation transformer -

There's a company out there that sells them at a fairly reasonable price:

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=229

http://www.tripplite.com/products/product.cfm?productID=230

The 250 watt is 163.00 US and the 500 watt is 238.00 US

You can get up to an 1800 watt unit from them - they don't list a price for that unit - but the 1000 goes for just 343.00 US.

Understand this - even with this unit - and the fact that it will isolate the chassis of your gear from a ground loop - if the GL is transmitting RF then your gear may still pick it up - all this will do (or any isolation equipment for that matter) is clean up the signal on the ground itself - and stop it's internal coils from picking up any RF (the Faraday Shield) but no matter how clean the power is - that Mustang would still pick up the signal.

And if that is the case then we are back to finding the cause of the ground loop and solving the problem. Because nothing including isolation transformers and star grounding systems will stop equipment sensitive to RF from picking up the signals if there is a ground loop.

Do you see?

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Thanks Rod,

Just want to make you aware that I currently don't have any power/noise issues. My system is clean sounding and functional. All in all a pretty happy camper. I just came across what seems a good deal on some of these really nice looking rack mountable power strips. They include AC Spike & Noise filtering and have isolated receptacles. The best part is that they have two plugs on the front and a bunch on the back and switched on/off from a switch on the front.

I was thinking well hey...why not...they way out class the utility strips I'm using now and thinking this might be a little insurance. The only thing is, I'm not completely up on the isolated circuit. As I understand, the "isolated circuit" isn't supposed to isolate the grounds...meaning it's not supposed to block the DC ground potential on the 3rd wire to the power source.

FIW...all my gear is serviced by the same leg in the master panel...there's a dedicated sub here in the studio which has only one ground bond back to the primary panel. I'm pretty sure I don't have any ground problems yet.

What I am more concerned about is that as I mentioned before, I do have some gear which uses wall wart type power supplies...my POD for instance. It has no ground pin on the utility connector. If I plug this thing into an isolated power source (which usually has some common connection between neutral and ground...and by code at only one place...the primary panel). Will this leave the POD at a different potential with respect to my computers and PC audio cards which I did not plan to plug into one of these isolated strip.

Since many of these types of devices (wall wart fed pre-amps and PODs -n- such) are TS/unbalanced...they would share an audio ground on the Sleeve connection back to the PC/audio interface...grounding the rack gear...maybe I'm worrying to much about nothing.

Hope that clears up my question.
 
Oh...one more thing I forgot to mention...not a big deal really but here in Colorado we get our fair share of lightening and other surge issues. I had an APEX series Transtector surge suppressor installed on the studio building a few years ago. But that really shouldn't have anything to do with what were kicking around here. In simple terms, it's a fast reacting self sacrificing MOV (metal oxide varistor) with SAD (Silicone Avalance Diode) device which is supposed to pull the surge source down to ground outside before it gets into the facility (that's the theory anyways). While we were doing some land scaping and installing the sprinker system, we burried a pretty extensive ground system as well. Last year the neighbors lost a TV, garage door opener, a stereo and their sprinkler control box to a strike we took out in the field behind our homes...we lost nadda well, except for one of the APEX modules.

Sorry...went off to the right and into the ditch again didn't I?
 
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punkin said:
The only thing is, I'm not completely up on the isolated circuit. As I understand, the "isolated circuit" isn't supposed to isolate the grounds...meaning it's not supposed to block the DC ground potential on the 3rd wire to the power source.

Punkin - an isolated ground receptacle works like this -

The feed to the receptacle is standard - one hot leg - one neutral leg - and the bare ground for the box.

The receptacle itself has a ground connector - but this is not connected to the body of the receptacle.

An additional jacketed ground wire is run for the ground conection. This ground connects to the ground on the receptacle - the bare (standard ground) connects to the box - the bare ground can be daisy chained (along with the power) from receptacle to receptacle - however - each receptacle gets an individual ground wire that runs seperately back to the panel ground bar (or to a seperate ground box next to the panel). Ultimately all of these tie back into the common earth ground serving the main panel.

In this manner - all grounds should have the same potential - end at the same earth ground - and only have the one path back.

What I am more concerned about is that as I mentioned before, I do have some gear which uses wall wart type power supplies...my POD for instance. It has no ground pin on the utility connector. If I plug this thing into an isolated power source (which usually has some common connection between neutral and ground...and by code at only one place...the primary panel). Will this leave the POD at a different potential with respect to my computers and PC audio cards which I did not plan to plug into one of these isolated strip.

It shouldn't. Understand - the only difference between a standard 3 prong piece of gear and a 2 prong piece of gear - is that the body on one is protected by the ground - and the body of the other (in case of a fault which grounds the chassis) is protected by isolation from the cover.

It's the same with isolated power tools - the parts you touch are not bonded to the metal parts inside.

Since many of these types of devices (wall wart fed pre-amps and PODs -n- such) are TS/unbalanced...they would share an audio ground on the Sleeve connection back to the PC/audio interface...grounding the rack gear...maybe I'm worrying to much about nothing.

Wrong - the ground side of the sleeve connection should not be providing earth ground to your gear. And I hope you don't ground the bodies of the rack gear at the rack itself.

If your gear is class II - and thus double isolated - then grounding the chassis can be dangerous. If it's Class III - then grounding the chassis is unnecessary because the voltage and amperage is not high enough to harm you - and (of course) if it was Class I it would have the 3rd prong.


You are worrying about nothing in this case.

If you aren't having a problem - then adding this to your system (instead of the standard power strips you're using - won't be a problem.

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Rod Gervais said:
And I hope you don't ground the bodies of the rack gear at the rack itself.

If your gear is class II - and thus double isolated - then grounding the chassis can be dangerous.

just keep in mind that screwing rack equipment into a rack, where one or more of the rack device chassis may be grounded, will in effect potentially ground all devices that establish a connection to the rack. if the equipment is designed correctly, the chassis for class II gear will not have any electrical connectivity... if you see sparks or smell smoke, stop... :-)
 
gullfo said:
just keep in mind that screwing rack equipment into a rack, where one or more of the rack device chassis may be grounded, will in effect potentially ground all devices that establish a connection to the rack. if the equipment is designed correctly, the chassis for class II gear will not have any electrical connectivity... if you see sparks or smell smoke, stop... :-)

That's my point - class II gear will NOT be grounded due to connectivity (of the body) to a grounded rack - the only way to do it would be to deliberately ground the chassis - and this would be dangerous. And yes - I do know of people who have done this thinking it would add additional safety to their operation.

My point is - don't do it.............. and don't worry about it either.......

Sincerely,

Rod
 
Excellent!

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. So it would seem, that if the manufacturer intended the device to be screwed down or otherwise mechanically fastened to the rack/tray/shelf it should be fine. If the manufacturer did not intend for this type of mounting practice, then don't make that electrical gound bond.

Did I get that straight?

Again, thanks for jumping into this one with me.
 
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