Any Thread in This Forum = Analog vs Digital

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Beck

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And that's mostly because "Outsiders" refuse to allow analog enthusiasts to discuss their love of analog among themselves. Funny because this is why the Analog Only forum was created in the first place. All someone has to say here to cause controversy is that they prefer analog? Shouldn't that be a given in a forum titled "Analog Only?" Of course many of us prefer analog and feel it is superior to digital... THAT"S WHY WE F'ing CHOOSE ANALOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:facepalm:
 
What are you talking about?

Every thread on the front page (except this one) is about analog products specifically, or people looking for help with analog.
 
Here is a question I have and would like to get an educated opinion. So, for me, I think analog is superior generally speaking (not sure the pain is worth the gain, but ...). I get many people wanting to stay in the analog medium for various reasons. Warmth, sound spectrum, etc. just works for many people. I get it and would never say differently (trying not to go ugly early on this question).

Here is my question, if you are working in the analog world, as soon as the sound passes through digital, don't you loose all of the upside of analog (sound purity)? The reason I ask, I had a guy tell me they were going to bounce to tape as it has better quality and I asked, what are you recording it on/too (has assumed tape), he said Protools. I then questioned if it is going digital and then going analog, isn't it then no longer the "pure" sound source.

Not sue if any of this makes sense, but since I saw this post, I thought it would be a good question for "analog" enthusiasts. (Slam if you like, but at least let me know your view)
 
DM60 said:
H
Here is my question, if you are working in the analog world, as soon as the sound passes through digital, don't you loose all of the upside of analog (sound purity)? The reason I ask, I had a guy tell me they were going to bounce to tape as it has better quality and I asked, what are you recording it on/too (has assumed tape), he said Protools. I then questioned if it is going digital and then going analog, isn't it then no longer the "pure" sound source.
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The "standard"....or more "prefered"...process for a hybrid approach is to track to tape then go to digital...since the idea is that you've used the tape to get your analog/tape sound, and THEN you transfer to digital, which is generally considered transparent...so you carry over that tape sound into the digital domain.
That said...there is no rule, and if you tracked to digital, and then decide to bounce to tape...you will get some tape flavor, but it's more like just a touch of seasoning....like adding a pinch of salt to a meal that has already been cooked.
 
I think we've just proved Beck's point here :-) I prefer analog because it tastes better.
 
Beck said:
And that's mostly because "Outsiders" refuse to allow analog enthusiasts to discuss their love of analog among themselves. Funny because this is why the Analog Only forum was created in the first place. All someone has to say here to cause controversy is that they prefer analog? Shouldn't that be a given in a forum titled "Analog Only?" Of course many of us prefer analog and feel it is superior to digital... THAT"S WHY WE F'ing CHOOSE ANALOG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:facepalm:
Click to expand...


Mmmmmm....I'm not sure who the "outsiders" are, and I don't agree that every thread here IS (or should be) automatically an analog **VS** digital thread just because this is the "Analog Only" forum.

I think we've discussed in the past that the use of the word "Only" in the thread title is misleading, and was mainly intended to suggest that discussions about very specific non-analog stuff should not be held here, since there are other forums probably covering those other specific topics....but it doesn't mean you have to be an analog-only purist to post here, or that any mention of non-analog stuff within a discussion here, or any negative mention toward analog, is strictly prohibited in this forum.

I think "Only" can be meant to prevent out-and-out bashing of analog/tape use....but open discussion should be allowed, even if/when non-analog points are referenced or sometimes comparisons made, or even when pros AND cons of analog and tape come up.

Let's face it....there IS good AND bad analog, and good AND bad tape recording (just like good AND bad digital).
There are also MANY people here who love analog but also use and appreciate digital too, like myself.
So it's almost impossible to create a "pure analog forum"....but I agree that in this forum, people should be able to express their love of analog without being attacked....though of course, even then, there should be some *basis in fact* when very specific observations are being made and presented.
I can't buy into the notion that someone just saying they love analog & tape gives them a free pass in the Analog Only forum to toss out all kinds of misconceptions and myths about analog and tape.
When they do that...that's when people laugh at the analog/tape guys.....don't you agree? :)
 
You haven't proved Jack except that the OP just put up another analog vs digital argument thread.
 
miroslav said:
Mmmmmm....I'm not sure who the "outsiders" are, and I don't agree that every thread here IS (or should be) automatically an analog **VS** digital thread just because this is the "Analog Only" forum.
Click to expand...

Why not just change it to "The Analog Forum" and be done with it?

Some Analogphiles here tend to get pissy about the exclusivity of their arcane preference;
realigning metal particles on acetate media using electromagnets and little motors.

This might mitigate the propensity for the analog chest beating threads, which by the use of the term "Only" in the Forum Header,
engender a false sense of exclusivity (mistakenly perceived by some primitive members as a title of superiority).
 
It was discussed in the past when things got stirred up in here before....but it was Chater's call, so the "Only" stayed.

I really don't think the word "Only" should not be such a sticking point with anyone. I mean, it's a forum where stuff is dicussed....yes, predominantly an appreciation of analog and tape....but not 100% exclusive.

Not to mentoin...*analog* is rarely discussed here on it's own....it's usually analog *tape*.
So maybe it should be The Tape Users Forum. :D ;)
Heck,...we discuss analog gear ALL OVER the HR forums....and no one gets upset by it. Mention a microphone, preamp...and you got analog.

Frankly...I think it's good for the Analog forum when a little more interactive discussion occurs as long as no one is hatefully bashing or just tossing out wild myths and BS about their perspectives.
Otherwise we get endless "How do I calibrate my ________" or "I just scored a case of High Bias _______" threads. :)
 
I love analog gear, btw.
It's kind of like enjoying vintage aircraft.
 
Yes...it's cool and there's something fun and rewarding about dealing with hardware and tape that is not always understood or appreciated by guys who have only used computers, with maybe just an interface box as their analog "hardware"....

...but I just don't want to see this forum turn into an analog zombie forum.... ;)
There IS life outside...and it CAN all work together very well. :)
 
Who's Jack? And what does he have to say about it anyway? :drunk:
 



Savoy Brown early stuff.....one of my favorite Boogie Blues bands ever. :cool:

Oh.... this was recorded all in the analog domain....so it's in context here. ;)
 
miroslav said:
The "standard"....or more "prefered"...process for a hybrid approach is to track to tape then go to digital...since the idea is that you've used the tape to get your analog/tape sound, and THEN you transfer to digital, which is generally considered transparent...so you carry over that tape sound into the digital domain.
That said...there is no rule, and if you tracked to digital, and then decide to bounce to tape...you will get some tape flavor, but it's more like just a touch of seasoning....like adding a pinch of salt to a meal that has already been cooked.
Click to expand...
Thanks, and this makes sense. If I understand correctly, in my scenario, (and please correct me if I am wrong as I know will happen anyway, so giving permission rather than forgiveness :cool:) Isn't that the long way around that could have been done with a plug in? (Just in the later scenario. As the first one make sense (stay analog until you go final digital)

So to remind everyone, this is just a question from someone learning, not judging.
 
Well yeah....there are dozens of analog tape saturation plug-ins out there. It just comes down to how much you or anyone prefers them over actually bouncing to a tape deck.

And as I've mentioned a lot of times....it's not always just the actual "effect" that counts. IOW, there's something to be said for the process and how you get that "effect" or end result.
Sometimes you look at two processes that are supposed to give you the same result, and one takes 10 steps while the other only 3 steps...and you might think, "Why do 10 steps?"....but you know, sometimes the 10 steps just end up being more fun, if nothing else.

It's not always about cutting to the chase and quickly getting to the end result, when it comes to recording, IMHO.
Savoring a moment or a process can create a certain "vibe" if you will, that then drives your next decision.
 
miroslav said:
Well yeah....there are dozens of analog tape saturation plug-ins out there. It just comes down to how much you or anyone prefers them over actually bouncing to a tape deck.

And as I've mentioned a lot of times....it's not always just the actual "effect" that counts. IOW, there's something to be said for the process and how you get that "effect" or end result.
Sometimes you look at two processes that are supposed to give you the same result, and one takes 10 steps while the other only 3 steps...and you might think, "Why do 10 steps?"....but you know, sometimes the 10 steps just end up being more fun, if nothing else.

It's not always about cutting to the chase and quickly getting to the end result, when it comes to recording, IMHO.
Savoring a moment or a process can create a certain "vibe" if you will, that then drives your next decision.
Click to expand...

Your answer actually makes sense. For most people "chasing the sound" (good documentary about Les Paul by the way) is as much about the journey and the result vs. just the result. As a Deep Purple song states: "Its not the kill, but the thrill of the chase"
 
...

Telegram Sam said:
Why not just change it to "The Analog Forum" and be done with it?

Some Analogphiles here tend to get pissy about the exclusivity of their arcane preference;
realigning metal particles on acetate media using electromagnets and little motors.

This might mitigate the propensity for the analog chest beating threads, which by the use of the term "Only" in the Forum Header,
engender a false sense of exclusivity (mistakenly perceived by some primitive members as a title of superiority).
Click to expand...

No attempt at intellectual phrasing and using $10 words hides the contempt and inflamatory nature of this post. A couple unflattering terms come to mind that I'll refrain from stating outright. I'll leave it at that.
:spank::eek:;)
 
there are only certain members that want to fight over the issue.
I do think it's inevitable that there will be 'digital as opposed to analog' discussions ..... otherwise what's the point of even bothering to state that one uses analog gear?
there's a reason that some of us prefer tape and analog gear and since the far more common digital gear dominates the marketplace, I fail to see how the subject of WHY we prefer analog wouldn't come up.
But it's certainly possible to have that discussion in a friendly non-insulting manner.
That's my only issue with the recent threads you're talking about.

If someone says, "well .... analog does impart it's own sound (which is why we like it) and digital is probably more transparent" ..... I don't see why anyone has to go, "Oh you digital guys are trying to keep us down and look down on us" and all that kinda untrue crap.
And when they do they should be called on it.

Otherwise I don't see that as the normal conversation in this forum.

Lastly ..... IF the analog or any other forum gets to where it's all simply question and answer with no human discussion in it then the forum dies because it becomes boring as hell.
May as well just read a book on the subject.

So while I agree that the overreacters are a blight and should be booted ....... I don't agree that the mere topic should be forbidden. it's only a couple of people that turn it into a war IMO.
 
I don't think the problems come from the occasional topic of explaining preferences for analog (things we like about it, etc.), but it seems like sometimes the 'digital' folks will come in here just to stir things up.

I'm thinking of the types of threads like, 'How to press an all-analog vinyl', which inevitably turn into defending 'Why I feel the need to press all-analog vinyl' while the topic deteriorates, the relevant info lost amid the attacking and defending of a simple preference.

Both digital and analog folks seem to agree that analog imparts certain artifacts that are clearly audible. Both seem to understand that having a preference for these artifacts or having a preference for clean, artifact free recording are matters of personal taste. Ditto for people who prefer the respective analog or digital workflows.

Some hybrid users use tape decks to get the artifacts and impart them in their ultimately digital recordings. Those discussions generally go okay and there is usually some healthy debate, pros & cons, etc.

The problem comes when some digital folks insist that analog can only impart artifacts (as essentially an 'effects box'), and digital is some sort of 'blank slate'. What some fail to accept is that there are people who actually believe something is 'lost' in the translation to digital, and this is their preference for using analog. This is where things always get ugly, because nothing can be proven one way or the other, and some people cannot accept that others may have an 'illogical' belief. This is where it begins to resemble arguing about religion or politics, and the debate will never end.
 
No one disputes the beauty of analog recording and sound. It's the the holier-than-thou attitudes of analog only geezers that causes the problems.
 
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