Another Two Unmentioned; all-around; around $500US; large diaphragm; cardioid mic

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I heard the Alesis GT AM51 and AM11 fix-cardioid FET mics today. It wasn't in the a very ideal setting at all, but enough to realize the two should be put in the catagory as described in the Subject Area with the others; and should be apart of the considerations when deciding.
 
Sorry to drag up such an old topic, but I was considering a purchase on one of the above mics and was left scratching me head as to what you meant! In your opinion, are they good mics or el-cheapo assembled in China untouchables?
 
My opinion based on limited experience:
Good: Yes
el-cheapo: Yes
untouchable: No, they really do sound good and have at least as good quality control as some other reputable mikes that I won't mention because I don't want to get into a fight. :)
The Chinese companies have ISO 9000 quality standards and make components and entire mikes for other Companies of "different" nationalities. Remember that the Chinese/Malaysian/Singapore/Korean/Phillipines workers want to have pride in their work and make a good living just as much as you do.

Peace,
Rick
 
I have the AM-52, and while it's a fantastic mic (multi pattern), I wouldn't want it to be the only mic in the locker. IMHO, my Octava 319 is a better vocal mic but the 52 is fantastic on acoustic guitar. In the omni mode, it smokes on bass guitar cab.
 
Personally...

They wouldn't be my choice with ALL those mics out there. However, I do feel the quality-to-price ratio is something to recognize and should be considered when looking for a different sound than the standard "AKG sound" in this price range with just as good QC.

The Axis:
What do you mean? A fight? I'm assuming that was directed at me? ONLY person I had a ANY kind of problem with in this microphone forum was ns who obviously has a different user name. Please, speak your mind on this and go into more specific detail.

As far as I can tell, GT Electronics mics don't have that pure Chinese smell to them like I smell on A LOT of mics and I consider them just as independent as AKG... But what do I know about mics?

I haven't heard the AM62; only the AM61 and don't remember being very impressed with it other than liking it about equal to the AKG Solidtube. Of course, that was only on one particular voice and just the simple fact of me only trying it as a vocal mic kinda goes parallel and emphasizes what Track Rat said.
 
Please relax, RE. I didn't have you in mind at all !
I didn't have anyone specifically in mind.
I just recognize that microphones inspire very strong opinions, and I didn't want to say ANYTHING that might be taken the wrong way by ANYONE.
..........and I still failed !!! :) :) :)

As far as specific details: I DON"T have them. I just know that the Chinese Mikes have good quality control....ergo they "have at least as good quality control as some other reputable mikes that I won't mention because I don't want to get into a fight."
For example: If I said "as good as AKG"...."as good as Neumannn"....."as good as OKTAVA"...then I would really be in trouble !!! because some would agree and some would disagree with whatever name brand I put into the slot.

Peace,
Rick
 
The Axis

No need for me to relax; I was never up-tight. I'm just letting you know I won't "fight" about this but in case you didn't already know, I do like to discuss this, so:

When you say "Chinese mics" or "Chinese companies", do you know who you're actually talking about? Well the two main players in China are Shanghai Feilo Electronic-Audio Equipment Co. Ltd. in Shanghai, China and Beijing 797 Audio Co., Ltd. in Beijing, China. http://www.797audio.com

Now, with a statement such as: "I just know that the Chinese Mikes have good quality control....ergo they "have at least as good quality control as some other reputable mikes that I won't mention because I don't want to get into a fight."" That is putting A LOT of claim with absolutely NO detail(s). And unless I didn't already have at least somewhat of a grasp of what's going-on in the mic department today, that statement would confuse me even more.

So, lets get into some detail(s), shall we?:

I'd assume Shanghai Feilo is producing at least 50% of the mics coming-out of China right now (for the mics we care about). And to be blunt, the QC simply flat-out sucks. I say it's about as bad as Oktavas from Guitar Center. For example, look at the MXL 2001/ADK A-51/Joe Meek JM-47/etc and them really being the same mic internally and their QC being EXTREMELY bad. I've gone into this far deeper before so I suppose I won't again unless I need to. Now, I don't know for a fact whatelse they have their hands into but I'm sure it's MUCH more than that.

Then there's 797 Audio problably producing the other half. I must admit, I'm FAR more impressed with this company than the other. Their focus right now seems to be the MXL 2003, MXL V77, MXL V67 (maybe), and MXL 600, ADK A-51TC and Area 51TT, supplying mics to PMI Audio for modification (I suppose), and Rode NT-1 and NT-2 caps.

Now from what I can tell, their QC is FAR better than Shanghai Feilo's. With that said, I still don't feel the QC is quite as good as a company such as Audio Technica, GT Electronics, or AKG, yet. That "yet" is meaning that I feel 797 Audio has a really good chance of getting there within the next few years. However, I do feel that Neumann STILL has every huge-mass produced company beat in QC.

Anotherwords: Times are a chagin' but we're still not there yet.

Now that wasn't so bad, was it? Obviously, some things are facts, some things are "rumors" and/or "insticts" (where noted), and the rest is simply my opinion. So I want to let you know that I do respect your opinion it's just I was/am hoping you'd share your reasoning on this.
 
In addition to the ones you mentioned, there is also SoundKing,in Ningbo. Here is their ISO 9002 Certificate:
http://www.soundking.com/iso9002.htm
It is pretty easy to deduce that they are the major producer of some of the low-priced condensers being marketed in the US by other companies (Carvin for one). I also think they made the CADs...but that's just judging from the identcal construction. Just browse their webpages and note the construction details that show up with uncanny similarity on some other new, low-cost mikes. The tech-specs are also identical. You be the judge.

as far as the "comparative quality" goes: we had a post asking specifically if anyone has had any problems with their Chinese mikes....no one responded. Yet the problems with Russian mikes are widely discussed. I have also taken the covers off my chinese mike (Cad C400S) and I don't notice anything of "poor" quality. I don't think that either of us have access to real statistical quality control data or customer returns data so it is ALL hearsay or personal experience. What I hear and see is good. If you have some other information, please tell us. I'm not hung up on defending the Chinese mikes, but I don't want them to be run down either, just because the fickle finger of "popular mikes" points at Australia one year, Latvia the next, ......

Also, "Quality" is a by product of the manufacturing process. It can't be "Tested in" or "weeded out" by subsequent inspections and testing after the product is produced....but that is the subject of Quality and Manufacturing Engineering theories. Basically, you can't set up a factory to produce turds and then wait for a gold nugget to pop out !! (well, you could, but....) :)

Peace,
Rick
 
AaaaHaaa!!!

THAT's where those CADs and that Carvin are probably coming from. I completely forgot about The Sound King and have never even looked for their website!

"as far as the "comparative quality" goes: we had a post asking specifically if anyone has had any problems with their Chinese mikes....no one responded."

I responded saying it's too early to tell. All the critics give MOST "Chinese mics" a life expectency of about 6months-3years or so.

"Yet the problems with Russian mikes are widely discussed."

I've been trying to discuss "Chinese mics" here too since the whole ordeal of 797 Audio started at rec.audio.pro back in February.

"I have also taken the covers off my chinese mike (Cad C400S) and I don't notice anything of "poor" quality."

MOST of the "poor" quality is in the capsules. Can you visually tell the difference of a few microns compared to a few more microns?

"What I hear and see is good."

Compared to what? THAT is MY point. That statement doesn't tell ANYONE ANYTHING. It doesn't even tell yourself anything. There MUST be a Control for it to mean anything to anyone.

"I'm not hung up on defending the Chinese mikes, but I don't want them to be run down either, just because the fickle finger of "popular mikes" points at Australia one year, Latvia the next, ......"

The thing IS we that CAN'T group together by saying: "Chinese mics" or "Russian mics" or "German mics", etc. are "good" or "bad" quality. Oktava mics or MXL mics or AKG mics or Rode mics, etc. are "good" or "bad" quality.

The best we can do is to go the by the model number and make "genaral statements" of ALL mics with that model number.

"Basically, you can't set up a factory to produce turds and then wait for a gold nugget to pop out !!"

BUT we CAN ALSO SOMETIME make "general statements" about certain models of mics from various dealers.

For example: We KNOW that the Oktava Factory DOESN'T produce "turds" for Guitar Center and "gold nuggets" for The Sound Room. BUT we ALSO KNOW that The Sound Room's Oktava MC-319s and MC-012s are "gold nuggets" compared to Guitar Center's Oktava MC-319 and MC-012 "turds" because Guitar Center's Oktava MC-319 and MC-012 "turds" ARE the The Sound Room's rejects that didn't make the "gold nugget" cut from The Sound Room's tests.

It's simple, really. Oktava Factory ships Oktava MC-319s and MC-012s to The Sound Room. The Sound Room does tests and sends the ones that failed their tests back to the Oktava Factory. The Oktava Factory then turns-around resells them to Guitar Center. Easy.

BUT the FACT remains that capsules from Shanghai Feilo Electronic-Audio Equipment Co. Ltd. in Shanghai, China produce probably at least 50% of the capsules in mics from China (I'm just guessing) AND that there ARE rather DYNAMIC inconsistencies of quality between the capsules. When two different capsule are consectutivly manufactured off the same line and they don't have ANYMORE likeliness that they'll sound even remotely similar than if they were manufactured a year apart from eachother, then you KNOW the QC is "very, very bad" compared to a company such as Audio Technica, GT Electronics, or AKG and "very bad" compared to a company such as Rode.

"...so it is ALL hearsay or personal experience."

Agreed. So, of course, so is ALL this. But the stuff that isn't personal experience is "ALL hearsay" from people DEEP in the microphone buiness, such as David Josephson of Josephson Engineering, EveAnna Manley of Manley Labs, Stephen Paul of Stephen Paul Audio, Ma Jiulong of 797 Audio, Karl Winkler of Neumann/USA, etc. So, I'll take ALL that hearsay as much "FACT" as I would in this world.
 
>>I responded saying it's too early to tell. All the >>critics give MOST "Chinese mics" a life expectency of >>about 6months-3years or so.

Based on what data or experience ? Now who is generalizing ?

>>MOST of the "poor" quality is in the capsules. Can you >>visually tell the difference of a few microns compared to >>a few more microns?

No, I can't. It just sounds good and keeps working. If there was a dead cockroach inside, I would have reported it :)

>>"What I hear and see is good."
>>Compared to what? THAT is MY point. That statement >>doesn't tell ANYONE ANYTHING. It doesn't even tell >>yourself anything. There MUST be a Control for it to mean >>anything to anyone.

Compared to my AKGC3000B, AT4033, Earthworks SR71, Earthworks QTC1s, AT4041, (all of which I own) and The OKTAVAs, Rodes, and others I A/B tested it against at the store. I'm no expert, and never claimed to be, but I have compared these mikes. That's why I responded to the post...I do have directly applicable experience.

>>BUT we ALSO KNOW that The Sound Room's Oktava MC-319s and >>MC-012s are "gold nuggets" compared to Guitar Center's >>Oktava MC-319 and MC-012

You manged to turn another innocent post into a plug for the Sound Room. :) "Methinks thou dost protest too much"---William Shakespeare

>> But the stuff that isn't personal experience is "ALL >>hearsay" from people DEEP in the microphone buiness, such >>as David Josephson of Josephson Engineering, EveAnna >>Manley of Manley Labs, Stephen Paul of Stephen Paul >>Audio, Ma Jiulong of 797 Audio, Karl Winkler of >>Neumann/USA, etc. So, I'll take ALL that hearsay as >>much "FACT" as I would in this world

Good point. I wish AT LEAST ONE of those guys had responded to this series of posts ! Unfortunately, although you drop their names, they didn't.

peace,
Rick
 
Ummm

Why do I feel you're starting to respond as this is a "fight"; like you didn't want to happen?

"Based on what data or experience ? Now who is generalizing?"

First off, they've been around longer than you might think. 797 Audio has been making mics for over 40 years. Second, it WASN'T me who said it. Nor did I say I agree or disagree with. I've NOT had my "Chinese mics" long enough to agree or disagree with it. I'm SIMPLY passing-on what the "critics" who "want them to be run down" are saying.

"Compared to my AKGC3000B, AT4033, Earthworks SR71, Earthworks QTC1s, AT4041, (all of which I own) and The OKTAVAs, Rodes, and others I A/B tested it against at the store. I'm no expert, and never claimed to be, but I have compared these mikes. That's why I responded to the post...I do have directly applicable experience."

Well NOW that helps a LITTLE more since I have NOT heard a CAD C400S. But I KNOW that MOST of those other mics you've mentioned sound rather sigificantly different from eachother. So what mic(s) you listed sound CLOSEST to the sound of your CAD C400S and on sound source(s)?

"You manged to turn another innocent post into a plug for the Sound Room. "Methinks thou dost protest too much"---William Shakespeare"

You're the one who brought it up by saying: "Basically, you can't set up a factory to produce turds and then wait for a gold nugget to pop out !!"

BUT even if I DID. SO WHAT? Anyone reading can SEE it JUST HAPPENED to come-up in order to present my point. Fuck! I'd make more money getting paid everytime someone metions me "pluging" The Sound Room. And MORE so. It stricks me as EXTREMELY ODD people are ACTUALLY complaining because I'm letting EVERYONE know Oktavas from The Sound Room and Oktavas from Guitar Center ARE different and they'd get A LOT MORE for their money IF they DECIDE to buy Oktavas from The Sound Room? FUCK ME for informing people and AT LEAST getting them to "look into it" and investigate themselves!

"Unfortunately, although you drop their names, they didn't."

AGAIN, ANYONE reading this post can SEE I "dropped names" to present my point, NOT to act like a big-shot as it SEEMS you THINK I'm acting. BESIDES, MOST of ALL this "FACT"/hearsay was written for ALL to read in public forums, anyhow; MOSTLY at rec.audio.pro. FUCK ME for passing-on info!
 
Peace RE.
I don't really care enough about you, or the Sound Room, or OKTAVA, or Chinese Mikes, or Quality Control theories to get my panties in a bunch on a Internet Forum. You da man...I'm outa here.

Peace,
Rick
 
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