Another rookie question . . . On Replication format

[RogerL.]

I'm close to getting a master to send for replication and I'm not sure which format to save the master in. Should it me WAV or MP3 or something else? I certainly want it to be able to play in any CD player

 

[Steenamaroo]

WAV, always.
MP3 is a compressed, lower quality version of a WAV file.

 

[Armistice]

What's "replication"?

Are we talking a "proper" CD or CD-R... the requirements differ depending upon what it is you're trying to do...

There are discussions about this in the Mastering forum... go have a read.

 

[gecko zzed]

Replication is usually the term for the way commercial CDs are made, via a glass master.

Duplication is usually used to describe burning a CD-R

 

[Massive Master]

And in either case, you need a properly formatted, RedBook compliant/compatible production master authored to CD-R (or better yet, a DDP fileset).

No "iTunes" - no "Windows Media Player" - no "Roxio" authored discs.

 

[PRHunt]

WAV, always.
MP3 is a compressed, lower quality version of a WAV file.

Just to be pedantic, the compression used in MP3 is lossy, which means that some audio data is irretrievably thrown away during the compression process (kind of like a jpeg image).

There are loss-less compression formats, like FLAC, which offer space saving while preserving every bit of audio.

FLAC can be played by many personal media players (not sure about ipod?) WAV or FLAC are good choices for master copies of audio.

If the recording is being passed to a Mastering Engineer for mastering prior to distribution, just check the requirements of the mastering facility. I'd be surprised if any mastering engineers work from MP3.

 

[RogerL.]

I guess I opened a can of worms by using replication. I was just referring to reproduction. The guy that is doing my mixing/mastering does not have the capability of producing the Red book master . . .that's why I was asking. So I guess the next question is do I use WAV and forget it or is there a way to have someone do the Red book master, that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. And by the way I've read quite a bit in the mastering section . . . it just gets to be a bit much at the rookie stage I'm at.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I guess I opened a can of worms by using replication. I was just referring to reproduction. The guy that is doing my mixing/mastering does not have the capability of producing the Red book master . . .that's why I was asking. .

that can't be. Can he burn a CD that will play in a regular CD player?
If so THAT'S a redbook CD.

 

[Massive Master]

You can find out if the duplicator will accept raw PCM data (.wav files would be an example) and create the production master in-house (quite a few do this). You certainly could hire a mastering engineer to create a disc or DDP (find out if the duplicator accepts DDP - it's a better format anyway). That would at least avoid any potential surprises...

 

[Massive Master]

that can't be. Can he burn a CD that will play in a regular CD player?
If so THAT'S a redbook CD.

That's not true by a long shot... I can personally attest to discs that "might" play - this time - and not play next time, lose time code, jump around during playback, skip, stop, stutter -- And that's just with iTunes. I won't even get into Roxio or WMP...

Improperly formatted discs might play. They might play for almost anyone. Maybe... Or they might stop dead in their tracks (no pun intended).

And the horror stories of said discs -- Oh, I've got a bazillion of 'em. From botched radio interviews to dance company performances to bands opening up 1,000 CD's and replacing them all...

 

[Lt. Bob]

That's not true by a long shot... I can personally attest to discs that "might" play - this time - and not play next time, lose time code, jump around during playback, skip, stop, stutter -- And that's just with iTunes. I won't even get into Roxio or WMP...

Improperly formatted discs might play. They might play for almost anyone. Maybe... Or they might stop dead in their tracks (no pun intended).

And the horror stories of said discs -- Oh, I've got a bazillion of 'em. From botched radio interviews to dance company performances to bands opening up 1,000 CD's and replacing them all...

regular CD players won't play anything besides redbook CDs so if he can burn a CD that will play in a regular CD player how can it NOT be a redbook CD?

I'm not talking about crappy discs or such ..... just in general the only thing that will play in regular consumer grade CD players is redbook.

 

[Massive Master]

The only thing that will normally play in pro decks is RedBook. A lot of consumer players play fast and loose with the rules -- Most are data drives with firmware that allow for a lot of "slop" in the TOC. Some decks will play straight PCM data discs, many are designed to play WMA and MP3 discs -- Those won't care if the TOC is in the wrong spot or if the disc was written in TAO mode, or if the 150-frame pre-gap is missing.

Even still -- A lot of pro decks might play an improperly formatted disc (such as an iTunes disc) this time, but not next time. Or it might play fine for the first few tracks and then just inexplicably jump into the middle of track 7 for no apparent reason.

I was actually at FOH when that happened during an Irish step-dance performance. Those poor kids... Heck, I've had it happen dozens of times -- But I wasn't usually right there in the theatre...

 

[Armistice]

dance company performances

The Lord works in mysterious ways...

But seriously, assuming you magically have a series of mastered tracks sitting around somewhere, is there software that will produce a red book standard CD? Or is special equipment required as well?

 

[gecko zzed]

The Lord works in mysterious ways...

But seriously, assuming you magically have a series of mastered tracks sitting around somewhere, is there software that will produce a red book standard CD? Or is special equipment required as well?

Wavelab and CD architect will do it. Reaper has a CD burning feature that I haven't used, but, knowing how Reaper operates, I expect it would do Red Book.

You don't need special equipment. I've burned lots of Red Book on whatever drive is in the PC.

 

[Massive Master]

True story. Reaper does RB also -- Not certain if it's "automatic" or if you need to know the pre-gaps and what not... I think it defaults to 150 frames though.

 

[Lt. Bob]

The only thing that will normally play in pro decks is RedBook. A lot of consumer players play fast and loose with the rules -- Most are data drives with firmware that allow for a lot of "slop" in the TOC. Some decks will play straight PCM data discs, many are designed to play WMA and MP3 discs -- Those won't care if the TOC is in the wrong spot or if the disc was written in TAO mode, or if the 150-frame pre-gap is missing.

Even still -- A lot of pro decks might play an improperly formatted disc (such as an iTunes disc) this time, but not next time. Or it might play fine for the first few tracks and then just inexplicably jump into the middle of track 7 for no apparent reason.

I was actually at FOH when that happened during an Irish step-dance performance. Those poor kids... Heck, I've had it happen dozens of times -- But I wasn't usually right there in the theatre...

I have five consumer grade CD players here ..... two Pioneers ..... a Teac ...... a Sony and a Cambridge.
None of them will play anything but redbook. And I don't know anyone who has ever recorded an iTunes disc and don't even know what that is.

Exceptions aside, and there are always exceptions ....... unless they're trying to be a universal player or want to add MP3 capability ..... the vast majority of CD players more than a couple years old only play redbook.

 

[RogerL.]

This is all very interesting, but that brings me back round to my problem . . . where can I, Joe Rookie get a Red Book master made from my WAV master here in beautiful downtown Tucson Arizona?

 

[Lt. Bob]

This is all very interesting, but that brings me back round to my problem . . . where can I, Joe Rookie get a Red Book master made from my WAV master here in beautiful downtown Tucson Arizona?

virtually anything that will burn a CD should have a redbook option on it.
I have Nero on my puter ..... it's an old program and it does redbook.
Often it might not be called redbook ..... sometimes they'll just call it an 'audio CD' .... that's what nero calls it.
Your own 'puter will burn an audio/redbook CD if it burns CDs at all.

You don't need special equipment. I've burned lots of Red Book on whatever drive is in the PC.

^^^^^ this ^^^^

 

[Massive Master]

Nero is one of few consumer programs that actually authors RedBook.

 

[RogerL.]

Now that's what I'm talking about. Thanks guys, that's just what I needed to know. I have a copy of Nero on my computer so I guess that part of the problem is now solved.