Another drum recording question. Advise please

[zbert]

Here is the story...
I am going to be recording a band live, but at a rehearsal room. Medium size room about 12x15. Wallboard, ceiling tile and carpeted floor. This recording is being used as a "live" demo (classic rock cover band). I am recording to a Tascam D38 (8 tracks). I have 3 tracks for drums. I'm not too worried about much bleed as bass and keyboards are going direct and the guitar amp will be in a closet. I'll use an Alesis studio 24 board. I also have a DOD 16 channel board if I want to do a sub mix. My mic locker has the following
AT pro 25
SM 57
SM 58
EV 257
2 - EV m150 (cheapies but they do a good job live on the toms)
AT 3035
MXL V67G
MXL 603s
2 - MCA SP1 ( I think these are really MXL's)
So, having 3 tracks to work with how would you approach this project. Do I 3 mic it into the Studio 24? Do I mic all the drums and sub mix it down to 2 or 3 tracks. What mics listed would you use where on the kit. BTW the drum set is a basic 5pc kit. Also any suggestions on compression, drum muffling etc are welcome. I have read a lot of cool ideas people have done here with drums. I'm looking foward to what your ideas are. If I left any information out let me know.
Thanks
Tom

 

[chessrock]

You got a couple options, really.

1) If it isn't absolutely necessary to you that the drums have a lot of stereo separation, then you could just go with three mics on the drums (actually quite common with jazz recordings). The at pro 25 on kick, the 57 on snare, and the marshall 603 as the overhead.

You could probably pan the kick just slightly left and the snare just a hair to the right, with the overhead dead center, and you'd get at least a little stereo separation.

2) You could go without micing the snare, and just stick a couple mics on overhead, perhaps the 3035 and the 603 spread out a bit. You'd just have to make sure you play a bit with the positioning; you'll want one of them positioned so you get a really good snare sound - it will take some fiddling, but my guess would be right by the drummer's left ear, perhaps (or maybe even in closer towards the snare and hi-hat). The trick would be making sure you don't get an overpowering (and annoying, grating) hi-hat sound that wears on your ears and dominates the drum mix.

This will give you a much better stereo image on the kit, but you'll lose some of the power/control over the snare . . . but there are always tricks you can use to bring it out more later, if you need to. ie - multiband compression, eq, etc.

3) If you have a decent mixer, just work with everything to get a decent submix on the drums from the board, and record that to two tracks. The benefit to that would be the opportunity to use even more mics and greater stereo separation. The drawback: Once it's recorded, what's there is there. And it would be tough to fix anything after the fact.

 

[Village Idiot]

Chessrock...

When you are submixing the Drums down to two tracks, could you tell me what you put put on each track?( I.E.: Snare/Kick on one, the rest on another..)

And is there really anything wrong with getting a good submix and just putting all the drums on one track?

Really curious as I am recording Drums now.

VI

 

[trpullen]

You lose your stereo image if you go to one track with drums. That is kind of a bummer.

I would do this:

ATPRO25 on kick
SM57 on snare
SM58 on high toms
EV 257 on floor tom as it has that huge low bump up close
and the AT3035 overhead Maybe one of the marshall.

I would mix a nice stereo track down to two of the 8 tracks and call it a day. Unless you might want to keep the snare alone so you can add reverb without muddying the kick. Ehhh.

T

 

[knowdoubt]

3 mics & 3 tracks is all you need to get the most wonderful stereo drum recording you could ever want. This may not be so for a huge 10 piece kit with double bass & a wall of cymbals & other noise makers but with a typical 5 piece kit it has gotten me some great results. I first discovered this when I was in a situation similar to yours. I tried all the other approaches (micing snare, hihat & as many other individual pieces as possible separately & mixing them to a stereo track + a separate kick track) & it was a nightmare. To hard to deal with & adjust for phase problems, level & balance problems on the fly that come with a multiple mic approach. It's one thing if everything is going to a separate track & you can deal with it later in the mixdown, but with a one shot mixdown on the fly it can be very problematic.

The 3 mic technique I use is 2 overheads & a kick drum, all on seperate tracks but there are a few things to consider to really make this work like a charm.
Probably the most important trick I learned to apply to the 3 mic technique that really made it work for me is to position the 2 overheads equal distance from the snare drum. This insures that there will be no phase problem with the snare drum between the 2 tracks & when the tracks are panned hard left & right the snare drum is dead center rock solid. This leads to some other considerations. When I say overheads I don't necessarily mean literally overhead. I actually end up more to the side of the head or shoulders. Since I use cardiods for overheads, both mics aimed toward the snare drum maybe or maybe not directly at it, in sort of a \ / pattern. The mics may need to be at different height's from each other for whatever reason to pick up the whole set nicely but just remember to make whatever compensation necessary in other direction to keep them equal distance from the snare drum. When you get the mic placement right, taking into consideration the distance of the other pieces from the mics & the angle of incidence to the polar pattern of the mics that sound will arrive from each piece, it's a beautiful thing when it all comes together & you get a wonderful natural uncolored stereo image.
The absolute details of mic placement have to be adjusted for the individual kit & situation.

Has worked well for me in the past. YMMV.

 

[knowdoubt]

[No message]

 

[Emeric]

VI

If your going to submix the drums to 2 tracks you want to decide on your stereo image before it hits the computer.

Kick - Center
Snare - Center
Overheads - Panned Left and Right (hard panned or 3:00 / 9:00 or center if your going mono))
Tom(s) - panned accordingly

Sure you can get a great sound submixing. It will take a bit more trial and error because you wont have as many options during mixing as you would if they were tracked individually.

You may have to make some EQ choices before it hits the computer. You may want to add a bit of verb to the snare before it hits the computer. Make sure the balance of the kit is correct. Kick loud enough, snare too loud?, overheads too loud? etc.

It can be done - trial and error.

 

[neirbo]

There is already some good advice posted here. I would just add that you could start simple first. Try the overhead (603)/snare (57)/kick (AT pro 25) combination first and see if you get the sound you like. If you decide that you either 1) want a more pronounced stereo image or 2) need to close mic the toms to get the sound you are looking for, then go the submix to a stereo track route.