Ford Van
Banned
Why not try a GOOD reverb, like a Lexicon PCM series. Hell, even the LXP 1 is a great sounding little unit.
Yamaha doesn't make that impressive of a sounding reverb box in my opinion. I have tried almost every one they have built, and they all sound like garbage cans.
Try a Lexicon unit. The MPX-1 can be had for fairly cheap these days, and offers some decent controls. But really, their product line starts to REALLY SHINE with the PCM series stuff. A PCM 70 is a great unit for smaller studios.
Yamaha doesn't make that impressive of a sounding reverb box in my opinion. I have tried almost every one they have built, and they all sound like garbage cans.
Try a Lexicon unit. The MPX-1 can be had for fairly cheap these days, and offers some decent controls. But really, their product line starts to REALLY SHINE with the PCM series stuff. A PCM 70 is a great unit for smaller studios.
mixmkr
we don't need rest!!
Couldn't agree more. If you don't like some of the upper end Lexicons, then you'll need a good reverb chamber instead....but when I worked in a studio back when that had one, it was actually pretty crappy. A twin...eh? That was a joke, right?
mshilarious
Banned
If you'd like to play around, you can get spring reverb tanks straight from the manufacturer via this eBay seller:
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZsepiQ5fgroup
Two tanks for a stereo pair will run you around $55. You'll have to spec it out though, including picking the reverb time.
Then drive it with a small power amp, a home stereo amp would work, and route the outputs back into your preamps.
That will give you the Fender Twin effect, but in stereo
http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZsepiQ5fgroup
Two tanks for a stereo pair will run you around $55. You'll have to spec it out though, including picking the reverb time.
Then drive it with a small power amp, a home stereo amp would work, and route the outputs back into your preamps.
That will give you the Fender Twin effect, but in stereo
FALKEN
*************************
furman, fostex and some others make units.
noisewreck
New member
Analog this, analog that. I'm so fuckin sick of this nonsense. Just because something is analog doesn't automatically mean it sounds good. In many cases I'd venture out to say that cheap digital is still miles ahead of cheap analog. Just look at the crappy noisy starved plate "tube" crap.nuemes said:
There is no such thing as analog reverb, unless you count the electromechanical stuff such as spring and plate reverbs, which may sound good in certain cases, but realistic they ain't.
Alright, now that I've got that off my chest... the only current "analog", i.e. electromechanical reverb that I know of that's decent is the Vermona stuff.
bigwillz24
New member
You want analog reverb? Slap a speaker and a microphone in the bathroom.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
A cheap analog reverb is to do something like mic a stairwell or an empty basement or even a bathroom. Plate reverbs can sound great, but true plate reverbs that sound and work good will cost you $$$. The only spring reverb I know of that is currently in production and gets good reviews is the Demeter unit.
What you really need to do is get yourself a *good* digital reverb. The suggestion of a Lexicon PCM was good, I have a PCM-91 and it sounds excellent. If you have money to burn, the 480L is still a standard reverb. More affordably, the MPX-1 sounds okay, not quite as good as the PCM series, but still better than what you've been using.
Also look at the TC Electronic M3000. Natural sounding reverbs that don't get in the way or call attention to themselves.
Maybe the least expensive really good reverb is the Kurzweil Rumour. I can recommend that very highly.
There are plenty of other great digital units as well. If you are talking about analog and reverb, then you are really talking about reverb chambers and plate reverbs.
What you really need to do is get yourself a *good* digital reverb. The suggestion of a Lexicon PCM was good, I have a PCM-91 and it sounds excellent. If you have money to burn, the 480L is still a standard reverb. More affordably, the MPX-1 sounds okay, not quite as good as the PCM series, but still better than what you've been using.
Also look at the TC Electronic M3000. Natural sounding reverbs that don't get in the way or call attention to themselves.
Maybe the least expensive really good reverb is the Kurzweil Rumour. I can recommend that very highly.
There are plenty of other great digital units as well. If you are talking about analog and reverb, then you are really talking about reverb chambers and plate reverbs.
faderjockey
New member
I agree with above...But I have a Rev500 and I don't mind the color of yamaha F/X....It's all in how you use it. I love when guys think stuff is dry I do when really there is tons of stuff doing things for placement.
Bob C... Sure gets great mixes using Yamaha http://www.mixthis.com/rack.html
Bob C... Sure gets great mixes using Yamaha http://www.mixthis.com/rack.html
Ford Van
Banned
I seriously doubt he is using his Yamaha reverbs for anything more than a VERY short verb on a kick drum, or on something he WANTS a "garbage can" sound on. Look at the Eventides and TC Electronics stuff in the rack. 
I can guarantee you that 99% of the time, they are carrying the load.
I don't mind using a Yamaha for a "clean" delay line. You can get their boxes for cheap, and the delay's are clean enough for a lot of different stuff.
I can guarantee you that 99% of the time, they are carrying the load.I don't mind using a Yamaha for a "clean" delay line. You can get their boxes for cheap, and the delay's are clean enough for a lot of different stuff.
faderjockey
New member
ok..If you say so.
Ford Van
Banned
ok...I do.
B
Beck
Guest
Seriously, get a Lexicon LXP-1 and find happiness. Springs are one thing I was glad to see go after digital processors became affordable.
I started with an SPX-90 when they were new, and later some Alesis products. I didn’t try the early Lexicon stuff until years later after they were discontinued – my mistake.
I have an LXP-1 now and wouldn’t trade it. I have plenty of other gadgets, including the Alesis Q2, but I’m keeping the LXP-1 just for the reverb.
If you want a really sweet analog device to create some ambiance, though not a reverb, look at the SR&D Rockman stereo echo. That’s another device I didn’t try until years after they stopped making them… really nice.
Inexpensive spring reverbs… look at the Furman RV-2, Fostex 3180, Orban 111, or Tascam RS-20. They are a bit dark and muddy IMO, but that’s what’s out there. I’m partial to the Tascam model if I had to have a spring unit. It has a swithable 200 Hz highpass filter -- very usefull
I started with an SPX-90 when they were new, and later some Alesis products. I didn’t try the early Lexicon stuff until years later after they were discontinued – my mistake.
I have an LXP-1 now and wouldn’t trade it. I have plenty of other gadgets, including the Alesis Q2, but I’m keeping the LXP-1 just for the reverb.
If you want a really sweet analog device to create some ambiance, though not a reverb, look at the SR&D Rockman stereo echo. That’s another device I didn’t try until years after they stopped making them… really nice.
Inexpensive spring reverbs… look at the Furman RV-2, Fostex 3180, Orban 111, or Tascam RS-20. They are a bit dark and muddy IMO, but that’s what’s out there. I’m partial to the Tascam model if I had to have a spring unit. It has a swithable 200 Hz highpass filter -- very usefull
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xstatic
New member
I have Eventide, Lexicon, TC Electronics, Roland, and yamaha available to me. Personally, I like my Yamaha spx 900's. Nothing wrong with them at all. There are things that I prefer from each individual unit. I can see how one person might not like one or the other, but to broadly refer to them as garbage is pretty lame. They can be very useful if used properly. We are however all entitled to our own opinions.
FALKEN
*************************
yes we all have our own opinions and they are just that. my opinon is that digital verb sucks for the most part. Not to say I haven't used some pretty damn convincing plugins. I listen back to one CD I made and forget I even PUT reverb, it just sounds like a room. Still, I really like spring reverb too, because it makes it sound like a 'record'. I just wouldn't use it on everything in the mix. maybe 1 or two things. I really like sending an unused lead vocal take through the spring for that 'ghost' vocal reverb sound. that sound can't be duped by a digi. Lately I have been using a combination of digi (alesis quad) and spring, but I am seiorusly looking into a plate.
the digis also do nice things like flanger and stuff. Anyone care to explain how to get flange with a tape deck? Do you need two decks synced up?
the digis also do nice things like flanger and stuff. Anyone care to explain how to get flange with a tape deck? Do you need two decks synced up?
faderjockey
New member
xstatic said:
That's what I'm saying.
Falken, Have you heard a 480L? Even the EMT140 on the UAD sounds pretty cool...
I use to use a Lexicon Nuverb on a Mac IIci (Lexi 300L). It sounded cool. You can find them pretty cheap...and you can find some one with an older Mac Nubus computer..I had a buddy that had two at one time...It has just AES/EBU I/O.
I've been even using the convolution verbs in mixes now.
tkingen
Djembes Rock
faderjockey said:
I had a great reverb lesson a couple of months ago. At work we needed a large assembly/storage space for a couple of months. We rented a large concrete box warehouse with a dome ceiling. The dimensions were 120'd x 100'w by 30' high at the crest of the dome. Although the walls and floor were concrete, the dome was wood.
I would go into the space when no one was around and knock wood together, knock metal plates together, whistle, yell, sing, kick a soccer ball against the wall and study how the reverberation of the room reacted from different points. It was interesting to notice first reflections, late reflections, how tails trailed off into silence, how a mountain of cardboard boxes changed the tone of the reverb, etc.
Anyway, this helped tremendously in becoming more aware of how reverb works and sounds. And, being an ITB type of guy, I've gained a new appreciation for the UAD-1 EMT Plate 140, Sir and Sonitus reverbs.
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Beck
Guest
One other important note…
If you’re trying to recreate a vintage (warmer) reverb like you get with the old springs the factory settings on modern digital processors are often just too bright. I know, everyone runs to the spec sheet to make sure something has a full 20 Hz – 20 kHz frequency response. That’s great for the dry signal, but really unnecessary for the wet signal where reverb is concerned.
Natural reverb doesn’t even have that much top end in a small room tiled with mirrors. The spring reverbs I mentioned above have top frequencies from 5 – 7 kHz. The venerable old Lexicon PCM-60 topped out at 10 kHz. So did the first Midiverb; and the SPX-90 at 12 kHz. More importantly, they just had more body than something like the MPX-100, which to me sounds thin.
That’s one reason I like the LXP-1. It does have a wet high frequency response of 15 kHz, but for the reverb programs the algorithms were designed to simulate natural reverb. Some describe it as dark compared to newer devices. I call it natural sounding. The plates and rooms on that thing are just ear candy to me.
A common mistake I’ve heard for years on amateur recordings is unnaturally bright spatial treatment. If you’re trying to create some unearthly space that’s ok, but if you’re going for realism you have to give the listener convincing spatial cues like they hear in everyday life.
That’s the key though – whatever you’re using get into your programs and tweak the EQ down, or cut it on your board.
If you’re trying to recreate a vintage (warmer) reverb like you get with the old springs the factory settings on modern digital processors are often just too bright. I know, everyone runs to the spec sheet to make sure something has a full 20 Hz – 20 kHz frequency response. That’s great for the dry signal, but really unnecessary for the wet signal where reverb is concerned.
Natural reverb doesn’t even have that much top end in a small room tiled with mirrors. The spring reverbs I mentioned above have top frequencies from 5 – 7 kHz. The venerable old Lexicon PCM-60 topped out at 10 kHz. So did the first Midiverb; and the SPX-90 at 12 kHz. More importantly, they just had more body than something like the MPX-100, which to me sounds thin.
That’s one reason I like the LXP-1. It does have a wet high frequency response of 15 kHz, but for the reverb programs the algorithms were designed to simulate natural reverb. Some describe it as dark compared to newer devices. I call it natural sounding. The plates and rooms on that thing are just ear candy to me.
A common mistake I’ve heard for years on amateur recordings is unnaturally bright spatial treatment. If you’re trying to create some unearthly space that’s ok, but if you’re going for realism you have to give the listener convincing spatial cues like they hear in everyday life.
That’s the key though – whatever you’re using get into your programs and tweak the EQ down, or cut it on your board.
SonicAlbert
Super-Sonic "Herb" Albert
Beck makes some really good points. Eq-ing fx returns is a great way to tailor sounds to your liking. Dialing some high end off reverb returns can make them sit better in the mix and sound smoother as well.
noisewreck
New member
I was just gonna say something along these lines. I tend to hi-cut reverbs all the way down to around 2kHz in some cases. Still, you want to begin with a reverb algorithm or impulse that sounds smooth in the first place, even if it's bright. This is where most software reverbs fall short. I've heard the Waves RVerb and TrueVerb, and while better than UAD-1 RealVerb and DreamVerb still tend to be grainy, with metallic overtones, compared to say the KDFX reverbs in my Kurzweil K2600, or many TC Electronics and Lexi stuff. I think the only software reverbs that actually sound good are the convolution ones, and in that case, by their nature, the sound depends on the IRs themselves. I haven't heard the UAD-1 140 Plate, so can't comment on it, but I think I'll give it a try next time I update the software, to see if it's actually all that.Beck said: