An idea...

[OneRoomStudios]

I wasn't sure if you guys just didn't see this post because it was at the end of yet another sub-$500 mic question thread, or if you all genuinely though it was a bad idea. If the latter is the case, let me know. Anyway, here's what I orginially posted:

"I have a weird idea...if you all think it's dumb let me know, but I think it could potentially be very helpful to all the newbies who keep asking the same questions about the same low priced mics.

I know none of us have all of these mics (at least I don't think anyone does), but if everyone could post info on the low priced mics they have then we could make a list on the pros and cons of each one...we could mention sound quality, self-noise, construction, bright/dark sound..etc. I think it could help a lot of people decide which mic would be the best for them.

But again, if you think it would be pointless then don't worry about it. Just an idea..."


-Peter

 

[solaris0031]

thats a good idea.....how do we start something like that? ill post.

 

[mshilarious]

It's a good idea. I would like to see a lot more user reviews here. I've posted a couple of reviews of new mics I bought, hopefully those are helpful.

A few considerations:

- Be sure to describe your signal path;

- Also describe your instrument(s) tested, playing/singing style, and mic positioning.

 

[chessrock]

And exactly how would this be any different than using the search function or the FAQ? Someone help me here. And doesn't Harmony Central already have something like that? And isn't that already kinda' useless?


So you get a bunch of people's opinions on mics. Isn't that what we've been doing for the last 5 years or so?

Sorry to be so negative, by the way. I'm just trying to make you sell me on the idea. Sometimes in life ya gotta' do a little work. He he.

 

[chessrock]

Here ya go . . .

http://www.hr-faq.org/

 

[OneRoomStudios]

Chessrock....if you're refering to the "What's the best microphone I can buy for under $100? $200? $500?" section...I agree, that is completely useless.

Acording to that an SP B1, an MXL V67, SM57, and EMC8000 are all equally "as good." After the numerous discussions here I would hope that we would all know that those mics sound very different from each other.

What I'm proposing is creating some list/database/sticky post/whatever you want to call it that will help newbies decide what mic is best for them.

For example...it is widely agreed upon that while they cost the same, the MXL v67 is generally better on vocals than the SP B1 whereas the B1 is more "true" and therefore usually a better choice on instruments. Of course that is a general statement and not true in all instances...but it does help give newbies an idea of how the mics differ in sound.

Another example...lets say I own a pair of C4's, a 4033, and an SM57. Now I want to know what I could get that would add some more color and options to my "crayon box." Well if I had a list of microphones that gave me a general idea of how each sounded, I wouldn't have to worry about redundancy in my mic closet. (I know..for the purists no two mics sound exactly the same, so there can't ever be real redundacy, but you know what I mean).

Anyways..this was all an idea to try to help cut down on the constant posting on the same topics by newbies. True, they could use the search option, but that can be tricky and not always that helpful. If we create a new sticky dedicated to it, no one will post with the same "What's the best mic for me" posts without having a really good understanding of all the options they have.

I hope that sells the idea...

 

[Big Kenny]

The problem being, we don't all have the same signal chain, customers, voices, likes, dislikes, birth stones, etc.etc.etc.
Tastes are so different, there is no rule of thumb. Sting and Bono both use sm 58's, should be good enough for us.
No disrespect intended, just seems to subjective to be an asset.

 

[OneRoomStudios]

I fully understand that but it would be nice to at least have a vague/general idea of how different mics sound. I'm not going to take anyone's word as "bible truth" I just want to know what a buch of recording buffs think about different mics. I wasn't looking for specifics....just basic guidelines we can agree upon. Obviously not everyone likes the SP B1 but I think everyone, even you-know-who can agree that it has it's uses. Of course it can be used for other things, but if you're looking for a mic with a specific budget and use in mind, it would be cool if you could look up some good options without having everyone you ask say "different mics sound different to different people." That's true, but it's also not very helpful. How does that aide a newbie in chosing a new mic? It doesn't. If we were to put this list together I would expect it to be subjective...reviews tend to be that way. But atleast there would be a "jumping off point" for newbies to help them understand the various uses and sounds of different entry-level mics.

 

[OneRoomStudios]

And although we don't all have the same signal chain, it isn't too difficult to figure out the inherent sound of the mic...run the mic through two or more different signal chains and see what the two recordings have incommon...the'll both be colored by the mic, and it will give you a good idea of how the mic works with different equipment.

 

[realdeal]

realdeal

Hey, I'm just a beginner using cool edit pro 1.2. I am currently using a mixer/mic plugged into my pc for live recording. My question is, how do I record and then redo portions of the recording (e.g., vocals over the orignial track? Which leads to my next ques. how do you record music on one track then vocals on another track? It seems all I get is one track, in other words, when I push the record button it looks like two tracks but live recording only goes on one. Or is that how it supposed to look? I am an Elvis impersonator and currently working on a demo. After recording a live performance, I'll play it back and if there's a spot where I missed the timing or just don't like the sound of my voice there is no way to fix or what? Thanks,

 

[Big Kenny]

And that is called hijacking the thread

 

[chessrock]

Acording to that an SP B1, an MXL V67, SM57, and EMC8000 are all equally "as good." After the numerous discussions here I would hope that we would all know that those mics sound very different from each other....

Exactly. "After numerous discussions" that would be the case. Now all someone has to do to find that out is use the search function to find one of the many "numerous discussions" you're refering to, and we'll be all set.

For example...it is widely agreed upon that while they cost the same, the MXL v67 is generally better on vocals than the SP B1 whereas the B1 is more "true" and therefore usually a better choice on instruments.

You do realize that that's a very general statement and not true in all instances.

Of course that is a general statement and not true in all instances...

Oh, I see you agree with me. In fact, what it is is an opinion held by a few people who bothered to post . . . and it is in regards to their situation. I for one happen to think the v67 sucks on just about anything I've tried it on and I happen to think I have a pretty decent ear, while I know several others who like it and they also have decent ears, so where does this leave our "general consensus?"

Another example...lets say I own a pair of C4's, a 4033, and an SM57. Now I want to know what I could get that would add some more color and options to my "crayon box."

If you go read Harvey's "Big Thread," hopefully you'll start to understand that there are differences between small diaphragm condensers, medium diaphragm condensers, and medium-diaphragm dynamic mics. Once you start understanding that, then you can hopefully start to think for yourself and hopefully come to an understanding of what would be redundant to add to your mic locker . . . without even having to ask anyone.

Well if I had a list of microphones that gave me a general idea of how each sounded, I wouldn't have to worry about redundancy in my mic closet.

This is assuming, of course, that your ears and taste are just like everyone else's.

What it sounds like you're looking for is Dan Richard's graph. I don't know if you're familiar with it at all, but he came up with sort of a pie chart where he plotted a bunch of cheap mics in order to point out where everything fell on a scale . . . What it has are descriptions like "colored" or "neutral," "bright versus dark," etc.

This is the kind of thing I think you should be checking in to. For example, I think it would be pretty safe to say that the Audio Technica mics like the 4050 and 4040 will fall pretty much on the "Flat / neutral" side of things -- when compared to others. The 4033 will cross over a lot more in to the "bright / neutral" side of things, while the Oktava MK-219 will likely fall in to the "dark / colored" territory.

The Studio Projects C1 and the Rode NT-2 for example would certainly be in the "scooped" or smiley-face category (flattering and with lots of bumps in the highs and lows) -- with high end sizzle for pop music, etc. Most of the Marshalls and other Chinese mics in general will also fit in this category for the most part.

Most Shure mics will likely fall more in to the "aggressive midrange" category, with less sizzle in the highs, less flattery but with extra bite in the midrange to help certain voices (or perhaps electric guitars) cut through a dense mix, for example . . . quite similar in many respects to the Audio Technicas, in fact.

If you look at any of these mics' frequency plots, you'll notice the curves pretty much bear out their sonic characteristics quite faithfully. You'll notice the midrange presence in most of the AT's and Shures, along with the 6 K hump for added bite and vocal articulation. And on the SP's and Rodes, you'll see that 12 K bump for some "pop music-ish" sheen. It's all there if you take the time to look at the graphs.

Again, though, once you get a basic understanding of what characteristics you can expect out of a small-diaphragm versus a medium versus large . . . and when you understand the differences in diaphragm thickness . . . tube versus FET, transformer versus transformerless . . . when you know the difference between a condenser, a ribbon, and a dynamic . . .

. . . you'll start to see patterns that should start you off in the right direction. And from there, any person with a high school education should be able to use the search function to fill in the blanks and get opinions on specific models. That should at least get you in to a general ballpark on things.

 

[Big Kenny]

See Chess, I knew you could fill those vacant shoes!

 

[OneRoomStudios]

Well thanks for the info chess....but you didn't have to be so grating about it

I have read Harvey's post, and believe it or not, I knew the difference between a condenser, dynamic and ribbon before I read it. It contains some invaluable information. I don't want to turn this thread into another pissing match though, so I'll leave it at that.

Maybe you could find that "pie chart" it could help a lot of the new guys out. Thanks

 

[mixsit]

I thought Dot's mic-grid was about as good as this sort of thing gets.
https://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=108464&highlight=mic+grid
Frankly I'd forgotten about it. I wonder if he has expanded on it?
Wayne

 

[Middleman]

Dan's chart didn't exactly work for me. Take for instance the TLM 103 being the same color as an NTK. Not even remotely the case in my experience. The Neumann is much more bland and there is a sharpness to the NTK which makes it slightly more bright in some situations. I think this type of chart is highly dependent on the preamp matchup and this affects the outcome dramatically in some cases.

I think the best you can do in this arena is to indicate a mic/preamp match that you may have found extremely useful along with a description of the vocal type and possibly a file to demonstrate. Otherwise it's just using words to describe sound and the results vary by the creativity and writing skills of the author.

 

[OneRoomStudios]

Wow, personally I find that chart incredibly helpful. I know that it is not an acurate measure neccesarily, but it's exactly what I was hoping for in terms of a overall guide to what some mics sound like with regards to eachother. I agree with Middleman that the Mic/Preamp combo makes a big difference, but at least there's a starting point for a layperson to understand where different mics lay. Some mics might be slightly brighter/darker/more colored depending on the preamp, but if we know the general sound of the mic and the coloration added by the preamp is known, then we can make our own descisions about the combination best suited for a specific aplication without all the guess work.

And before Chess jumps on me again...I know that a lot can be surmised from the capsule type, caps and transformer used and polar pattern, but this is a good basic guide for those of us who don't have the money/access to some of these mics. We get a glimse of how they compare to eachother in sound. Now obviously mic quality is not taken into acount on that graph, but that's a whole other issue.


P.S. Dot...if you're still around somewhere, I would love to see an updated version of that chart, maybe with points and a ledgend instead of having the names right on the chart itself. Thanks for making such a useful tool.

 

[Big Kenny]

Yeah, and can someone tell me what "warmth" is?