ampex 456 from the 1980s, is it sticky shed??

[Hi_Flyer]

so I picked up my 38 yesterday, and the gentleman that sold it was nice enough to throw in some un-used Ampex 456. I can't remember the exact date code (I'm at work right now so I can't check), but I know the first two digits on one reel was "85" and the other was "86", which denote the year if I am not mistaken.

What is the likelihood that this is sticky shed tape? Quick google searches revealed some sources that say Ampex 456 after 1984 should be free from sticky-shed, others say tape as late as 1986 is likely to be sticky shed. What is the general consensus on sticky shed years for Ampex 456? What is the absolute "safe year" cut-off?

I know I have been warned against using any old tape, but man, its tempting with tape being so expensive... also, it seems that this tape was manufactured on the cusp of sticky shed years, so there is a chance its OK.

is there any way to tell other than threading it up and playing? can I tell by running it on FFW or REW, or do I have to play/record?

 

[MCI2424]

so I picked up my 38 yesterday, and the gentleman that sold it was nice enough to throw in some un-used Ampex 456. I can't remember the exact date code (I'm at work right now so I can't check), but I know the first two digits on one reel was "85" and the other was "86", which denote the year if I am not mistaken.

What is the likelihood that this is sticky shed tape? Quick google searches revealed some sources that say Ampex 456 after 1984 should be free from sticky-shed, others say tape as late as 1986 is likely to be sticky shed. What is the general consensus on sticky shed years for Ampex 456? What is the absolute "safe year" cut-off?

I know I have been warned against using any old tape, but man, its tempting with tape being so expensive... also, it seems that this tape was manufactured on the cusp of sticky shed years, so there is a chance its OK.

is there any way to tell other than threading it up and playing? can I tell by running it on FFW or REW, or do I have to play/record?

I used 1/2" 456 through the 80s and early 90s. I have never had a problem with sticky shed. Maybe time makes it bad, but then again, I don't use small decks anymore with regularity.

 

[bloomboy]

Yeah, I would go ahead and at least give it a try. It's not like sticky-shed is going to kill your tape deck as long as you're actually watching for it. At worst it'll just take a little while to clean it back up.

 

[Beck]

AMPEX 456 will have sticky-shed-syndrome into 1994. 1985/1986 is right in the middle of the worst time. The likelihood that your tape has sticky-shed is 99%. I leave 1% for flukes, acts of God and such.

The binder problem known as sticky-shed-syndrome (SSS) did not manifest itself in the ‘80s when the tapes were new… it took several years for tape to breakdown. It breaks down whether used or still sealed new-old-stock.

It affects all sizes of 456/457, 406/407, as well as other brands and types from ¼” to 2”.

If it’s in the worst stage of SSS it’s a mess to get the tape path clean.

 

[Hi_Flyer]

thanks for the info. not what I was hoping to hear, but oh well...

what can you tell me about Scotch 3M 250 mastering tape. not sure about the date code, looks like it might be: 83283 26 48

 

[Beck]

3M/Scotch 250 will usually have sticky-shed.

The following are the bias compatible backcoated pro-grade tapes that do not suffer from sticky-shed-syndrome (regardless of what you read anywhere else)

3M/Scotch 966/986
AMPEX/Quantegy 456/457, 406/407… 1995 and later
Maxell 35-xx XL/XL1… any date
AGFA/BASF/EMTEC/RMGI 468… any date
BASF/EMTEC/RMGI 911… any date
Racal-Zonal 700… any date

Other than true sticky-shed syndrome you can run into bad batches of any kind of tape.

 

[cjacek]

you can run into bad batches of any kind of tape.

I think I may have run into a situation with brand new Maxell UD 35 [non-backcoated type] but I'm not sure. Let me explain and perhaps you can shed some light, Tim?

I noticed the gold boxed UD 35-180 backing [not the area contacting the heads though], has a slightly sticky feel to it. I first noticed it when threading tape and found the left [full] reel's tape didn't drop down but rather got stuct and I had to pull it off with my finger. I then touched the backing and found the tape actually stuck to my finger for a couple of seconds. Again, it's only with the back of the tape and not the area of tape that contacts the heads. Is this normal or could I be seeing the beginning of sticky shed?

 

[Tim Gillett]

Are you sure it isnt just static charge attraction?

Tim

 

[Beck]

There isn't anything in UD-35 to go sticky. As for the tape end not falling away from the spool I agree that would be static, which is more noticeable on non-backcoated tape. As for feeling stickiness... are you sure you didn't just touch the spot where the hold down tape was?

If there is any stickiness besides static my first thought would be... did you buy this sealed NOS, or was it open? Did it have the white Maxell leader with the number 35 on it? My suspicion is it's not really Maxell.

On the other hand it could be whale oil I suppose.

 

[cjacek]

Tim G and Tim Beck:

I doubt it's static 'cause it had a def tackiness to it, exactly like very weak adhesive. What's more is that it extended to the white [maxell 35 branded] leader polyester tape. It seems as the entire back of the tape, leader included, had this. Yes, it was NOS, sealed. All my Maxells came like that. Could be whale oil but why would it be sticky? Again, it plays / records fine, with only a bit of oxide shed on the tape lifters after a full 10.5" reel FF and REW.

Do you guys think that a pinch roller, starting to get rather tacky, could have lent some of the sticky properties to the back of the maxell tape? But then again, it doesn't come in contact with the leader tape so it doesn't seem to be the case. My girlfriend said something very interesting, that Maxell may have put a chemical on there to make the tape track better. Is that way off? Hmmm..

 

[Beck]

Never heard of anything like it with Maxell. UD is smooth and dry in my expereince. Anything could happen, so I wouldn’t eliminate the sticky pinch roller scenario. I’ve never seen it though.

 

[cjacek]

Never heard of anything like it with Maxell. UD is smooth and dry in my expereince. Anything could happen, so I wouldn’t eliminate the sticky pinch roller scenario. I’ve never seen it though.

I will check the other Maxell tapes. Too bad I can't post a video!

 

[Beck]

thanks for the info. not what I was hoping to hear, but oh well...

what can you tell me about Scotch 3M 250 mastering tape. not sure about the date code, looks like it might be: 83283 26 48

I lost track of this thread... I meant to follow-up with this link.

Scotch 206 1/2"
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280098078455

This guy has 4 reels of it and he will combine shipping. If you're still looking for a deal on 1/2" this stuff is great. All you need are reel flanges (and screws of course).

I posted these before in another thread, but don't know who all saw it.

Scotch 206 is the tape Tom Scholz put down the original tracks in his basement studio for the Boston debut album. He used a pretty modest machine -- Scully 1" 12-track with no noise reduction. The rest is music history.

I don't know this seller and have never dealt with him, but 206 in 1/2" is pretty rare. I would get it for my own use if I didn't already have too much tape.

Eh, I already have poster's remorse because I can't make up my mind whether to buy it or not. Well I know I want to buy it, I'm just trying like hell not to add to my already cramped studio.

Someone please buy it already and put me out of my misery.

 

[jjones1700]

Never heard of anything like it with Maxell. UD is smooth and dry in my expereince. Anything could happen, so I wouldn’t eliminate the sticky pinch roller scenario. I’ve never seen it though.

I had my RT-909 puke up a set of pinch rollers, which the 909s are notorious for. It left one of my reels with a sticky residue on playback, so I had to clean the entire length of the transport after I figured out what was going on. Depending on how bad it is, you might hear the tape "peeling" from the reel as it is being run down to the tensioner.

Just something to check and eliminate.