Amp mic'ing

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Nathan1984

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I have been using digital amp modeling and getting great results, but I have been wanting to test out my collection of mic's. I have a tube head, and peavey 5150 cab that I am wanting to record. My question is, what should I do to get the best possible result. I understand placement, and getting a good signal. What I mean is, post recording signal, what combo of plugs do I need to use to clean up the sound and get the best results? Gate, compression, eq, and in what order? I am sure I need a gate, and some compression, and eq of course, but I want to know what order, filters?, anything else that will help get that amazing metal tone shine in my recordings?
 
Sad to say, but there is no "magic setting" or number that instantly makes a guitar track amazing. Try as hard as you can to get it right at the source, and then just use plug-ins (if necessary) to polish up things a little. Ultimately, choose what sounds good to you...and the only way to do this is by experimenting!
 
Nathan1984 said:
what combo of plugs do I need to use to clean up the sound and get the best results?
Click to expand...

"Placement and good signal" is the core thing.
Unless you're going for some effect you don't want to be relying on plugins to fix or clean up your sound.

If you've decided that you need a gate, compression and eq before you've even dusted off the mic, there's something badly wrong IMO.

Just spend time with the input sound; The room, amp, guitar, placement, mic etc.
There are techniques, like double/quad tracking and panning them apart, but other than that, I'd try to forget about the digital luxuries for now.
 
What kind of metal sound are you aiming for?
I record 4 tracks (or more) of the guitar and pan L/R.
I use a touch of echo/compressor and eq in my Roland GP 8 (old rack unit) before the amp (4100).
A little reverb from the amp.
I usually add some oveall reverb in the computer and I eq to trim back the bass on the guitars and I'm good to go.
 
Nathan1984 said:
I have been using digital amp modeling and getting great results, but I have been wanting to test out my collection of mic's. I have a tube head, and peavey 5150 cab that I am wanting to record. My question is, what should I do to get the best possible result. I understand placement, and getting a good signal. What I mean is, post recording signal, what combo of plugs do I need to use to clean up the sound and get the best results? Gate, compression, eq, and in what order? I am sure I need a gate, and some compression, and eq of course, but I want to know what order, filters?, anything else that will help get that amazing metal tone shine in my recordings?
Click to expand...

Why are you sure you need a gate, compression and EQ?

I record tons of electric guitars and I never start out assuming I'll need anything. I never use a gate. I use EQ on rhythm tracks more than lead, but even then, probably less than half the time. And I almost never use compression on high-gain tracks, but sometimes do on clean tracks.

In other words--what they said. There's no magic combo...
 
Gate: Probably not. You won't like what happens as chords or notes decay. Gating live is one thing (and even then I can't think of a reason to put one on a guitar). But gates in the studio are almost useless or at least un-necassary in my opinion.

Compression: On a distorted guitar? Almost never. Your distorted guitar is already compressing itself quite a bit.

As mentioned a few times above, you shouldn't assume you'll need any effects until you record and listen to the track in the context of the whole mix. Get your sound as close to what you hear in your head before pressing RECORD and you're most of the way there.
 
First, it helps to get the sound you after before you even hit the record button. Second, test that sound going into your DAW, it may change based off mic placement, the type of microphone, the pre-amp, etc. Monitor it through your monitors or phones if your in a separate room, or record snip-its of sound to see how it sounds going into the DAW. Then make changes where necessary.
 
BigRed360 said:
Why are you sure you need a gate, compression and EQ?

I record tons of electric guitars and I never start out assuming I'll need anything. I never use a gate. I use EQ on rhythm tracks more than lead, but even then, probably less than half the time. And I almost never use compression on high-gain tracks, but sometimes do on clean tracks.

In other words--what they said. There's no magic combo...
Click to expand...

Something I just tracked tonight...



Let's just talk guitars: the bass is compressed, the acoustics (there's only a little acoustic in this) and the rhythm and lead electrics have no compression at all. (Though the finished mixed is compressed.) The rhythm guitars have a touch of eq--just a single bump in the upper mids. The lead and bass have no eq. And there's no gates anywhere.

You may hate this sound, but my point is that I'm getting a sound that I like by getting my tone down first, and then capturing that tone. It's simple--but not easy. :)
 
Adding a miked amp to your direct signal changes your tone, since a microphone, amplifier, speaker, and the cabinet are now in the equation. Thanks.
 
I personally never compress distorted guitars. They're already compressed coming out of the speaker.

I only use a gate sometimes if I'm using my Strat and the guitar passage has a stop or some space in it. Strats naturally hum and buzz a little. Usually I just trim that section out with editing, but sometimes a gate is fine. Other than that, no gates.

I will use EQ though. Nothing wrong with EQ. Sure, dial in the amp to sound the best it can and take your time to precisely position the mic for the sound you want, but then later you can fine tune things with EQ. That's what it's for. There are no magic settings though. You have to learn how to identify what certain frequencies sound like, how to identify those frequencies in the mix, and then how to correct those frequencies with EQ. That's practice.
 
I wouldn't bother with a gate. I'd manually edit out the unwanted parts so you can have more control over the fade ins and fade outs.
As for compression I go for an attack of around 20ms and release of around 20ms. If you have a clean guitar or mildly distorted guitar then you might want to make the attack speed quicker to catch loose transients and to smooth that sound.

EQ is the toughest part. It really depends on what the raw track sounds like.

G
 
Honestly if you can get the amp dialed in right, and you can get the mic on the right spot that is 95% of what is needed to get there.

A poorly dialed in amp will sound like a poorly dialed in amp no matter how many plugins you throw at it. Eq shouldn't be viewed as a "how do I fix it" solution.

All I do is just dump everything under 80hz and above 16k and call it good with guitars, I don't bother compressing (greg is right, distorted guitars are already compressed), and I don't bother gating either as manually editing or attenuating the noise sounds more natural.

It's prettty common to just see a single eq on all my guitars dumping off the super high and super low frequencies. I dial in the midrange at the amp.
 
Ok, I think I'm gonna have to rethink my approach then. I may have to mess with the settings on my amp then, cause I think it sounds like aweful lol. What do you guys think about mic placement, I am into the more extreme technical metal. I want to get the best tone I can, and what mic do you guys suggest? I have an sm57 and a senneheiser e609, I have heard people using condensors, I have some ev drum mics, and an mxl 990/991 combo set. What do you guys think?
 
This kind of thing is so specific to each setup, although I'm sure people will recommend good mics and standard techniques.

Thinking about it logically, what you hear is the amp playing in a room, bouncing off walls, being processed by a pair of ears five or six feet off the ground.

What your mic 'hears' is completely different; Probably a few inches away from the grill.

Maybe experiment with angling the amp so it projects upwards.

A common one is recording with far too much gain (that's probably been mentioned).
It may sound great in the room, but it almost always doesn't translate that way to a mix.

Find the gain that you think is fine, and literally half it. Record that just to see what it's like and experiment from there.


The golden answer is to put the amp or cab in a different room where you can't hear it, and listen to your playing in real time through your monitors.
That way you really know what's happening and you can make quick adjustments.

With regard to mics, just try em all, close and far.

Would it be better to get a straight answer that happens to work, or to get to know first hand how all your mics sound?
Do a controlled shootout if you're bored. You'd be shocked how much difference a mic makes.
 
All good answers so far about getting the sound from the rig and placement first before looking to doctor it up. But one question before you go worrying about your mic: is your guitar set-up ideal for what sound you are looking to achieve? You said you had a tube head and want to play extreme technical metal. When I think technical metal I think of fast response and note clarity. If you have a tube amp head like a Marshall JTM-45 with little headroom and lots of sag and compression that might be harder to get that sound than a high-wattage tube amp with a clean power amp and lots of clean headroom. What kind of speakers are in the 5150 cab? Are they low-wattage or low-efficiency and going to distort or crap out if you hit them hard? What about your guitar and pickups? Are you dealing with high-impedance humbuckers that might end up in dark, tonal mud or something with more clarity? In short, do you like the sound of your rig and are just having problems getting that sound to tape/hard-drive or are you trying to use the recording "process" or mic choice to fix the recording source? If it is the latter you might want to rethink your approach and get your guitar rig to sound the way you want it before you even pick a mic.
 
Steenamaroo mentioned putting the amp in a room and sitting playing in the control room. The way I do it is have the speaker cabinet in another room but bring the amp through into the control room. I find that the easiest way to dial in the right EQ and gain.

Working out how much distortion you need will be much easier when you are in the control room with just the amp.

G
 
Thanks for the responses guys. Unfortunately, I don't have the ability to have a control room or I would definitely use that idea. I have a 120 watt crate blue voodoo head, my guitars have emg 81/85's in them, and the 5150 has sheffields in it. I want more of a mid gain metal, with more clarity. I play some pretty technical music, so I don't want my riffs to get lost in the mix. I think what I am gonna try to do is put everything to noon, then record a sample with the sm57, then with the e609. Basically record a few samples with both mics in different locations. I do have another question, can I mic my 4x12 with both mics simultaniously? Like one mic on the top left and one on the top right speaker. I also heard that you can put ear plugs in your ears and get close to the speakers and listen to the speakers closely and see which sounds the best and it may help eq your amp, what are your thoughts on that?
 
I duno about getting close like that. There might be something in it, but it'll probably be much more beneficial to just record-listen-adjust.

Sure you can mic two cones at ones, but you should be doing it for preference rather than to fix something.


If you're having fundamental issues, I wouldn't recommend it.

If you can't get a reasonable sound with a 57 on one cone, then work at the guitar/mic/cab/room; It's in there somewhere! :p
 
Nathan1984 said:
I also heard that you can put ear plugs in your ears and get close to the speakers and listen to the speakers closely and see which sounds the best and it may help eq your amp, what are your thoughts on that?
Click to expand...

Don't do it...too dangerous. There shouldn't be a HUGE difference in between them anyways.
 
I run pink noise thru my guitar amp and then listen to the mic thru headphones and move it around until I get the pink noise to sound the same with and without the headphones. Then I can pretty much count on the sound I'm hearing in the room to be captured pretty accurately.

Oh ....... and half the gain as steenamaroo and others have mentioned. Using too much gain is super common.
 
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