AMD MB Recommendation, Please?

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bongolation

bongolation

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OK, I started to buy an IWill KA266-R today, but received advice not to do so because of the poor DDR performance of the ALi chipset. In looking at some of the reviews, I was surprised to find widely differing performance with DDR depending on application, regardless of momboard. Likewise with RAID.

OK, back at Square One. Again.

What shall I get?

Let's narrow this down:

1: It _will_ be an AMD, probably a 1.2GHz T-Bird. After working at Intel, no Intel product enters my house, ever, period, end of story. Let's move on...

2: Is DDR worth a bent quarter for a DAW or is audio recording one of those applications where DDR doesn't do much, if anything? No reviews of DDR performance that I've seen _ever_ touch on its applicability for audio, though some audio card manufacturers recommend DDR MBs for their equipment. DDR is plenty cheap now, so if it DOES help in a DAW, let's go for it if it's not a total waste. Answers? Good sites on this question?

3: Likewise RAID: Finding a board with RAID 0+1 and DDR is pretty pricey and difficult, and numerous people say that RAID is probably not worth it for audio recording in any case, a very expensive way to get but a marginal increase in speed/decrease in latency. Performance can be bettered with less money spent elsewhere.

4: Given an AMD CPU, which combination of the above features makes most sense for a quality setup with a moderate number of tracks and plugins?:

a: No DDR, no RAID
b: DDR, no RAID
c: RAID, no DDR
d: DDR and RAID

5: Which MB are best candidates after our final a, b, c or d decision, above?

As always, thanks for any solid help. I plan to order this week.
 
I would go with "D". In fact I did about 4 months ago, and would do so again, especially since prices are less on DDR. I would go with the GA-7DXR board which includes onboard raid. The Asus A7V is also a good stable and powerful performer for DAWs, with the VIA KT133a chipset. I would still prefer the "D" solution because: 1) it uses DDR, which is proven to be faster. The cost now is about equivalent to SDRAM, so DDR is a good investment; 2) Having the extra raid slots is a great advantage. You do not have to set up the raid, but you can run your drives in JBOD mode (Just a Bunch Of Drives). This allows each drive to operate independantly, like common hard drives. With the two extra IDE channels, you will be able to have more drives set as master. (I understand a CD-ROM and a hard drive on the same chanel can cause poor hard drive performance); 3) The GA-7DXR mobo has adjustable voltage settings and other adjustable parameters, so it is basically tweakable, which is a good thing; 4) the GA-7DXR uses the AMD 760 chipset, which is very stable. Currently better than the Ali Majik or the VIA KT266 chipset for DDR solutions. (Your friend gave you good advice. The Digi will not run at all on the Ali Majik chipset.)

On the other hand, if you are not in a rush and can wait several months, the nVidia "Crush" chipset will be out and should provide some amazing performance. But one should be cautious, because new chipsets often have problems, especially in DAWs. However, additional performance will always be useful in running more plugins, samplers or DXi/Vst Instruments. These can be real CPU hogs.

I am pleased with my 1.2 AMD in a GA-7DX mobo. I run the Digi 001 and get 24 tracks with over 100 common plugins. I find that Reverb is a CPU hog also and is equivalent to about 8-9 common low-CPU plugins, such as compressors, limiters, EQ, delays, gates. Good luck!
 
OK, the latest thing I heard was that the ALi was _NOT_ a poor DDR handling chipset, with some reviews showing it doing excellently with DDR but not overclocking well, which isn't a concern to me.

So, I'm getting diametrically-opposed "facts" on this chipset. If there's a way to get to the bottom of this, I'd love to find it. Yeah, DDR is cheap ($50 per 256M of Micron, delivered) so why not?

I'm also wondering if there is a performance downside to a RAID card compared to onboard RAID on the MB. I'm getting contradictions with this, too, naturally.

Frankly, there are a lot of new motherboards now with DDR that are about $150 bucks less than ones with DDR _and_ RAID, which I don't even know if I'm going to use...so if performance is NOT degraded by using a PCI RAID card, then that's the way to go, as RAID cards are well under $50 these days...if I decide I need to go with that.

The "DDR w/no RAID" MB option with an AMD 1.2GHz T-Bird CPU and fan is about $166 on PriceWatch. The same with DDR _and_ RAID is way over $300, which makes me wonder about the economical feasibility of that option.

It looks like I'm going to be using the eventual MB with a SeaSound, which for all practical purposes is orphaned, so I don't need any compatibility problems with it and the chipset, which would probably be THE deciding factor if there was any way of knowing which chipsets worked with it and which didn't.

Thanks for your input, I'll check out your suggested MB...
 
I'think I'll be buying the ASUS A7V. It sounds like steady MOBO.
 
Riku said:
I'think I'll be buying the ASUS A7V. It sounds like steady MOBO.

But it's not DDR nor RAID.

The ASUS DDR board that's out now has - wait for it! - An ALi MAGiK 1 chipset.

Sigh!
 
Yeah the A7V133. I just replaced an A7V with an A7V133 in a customers machine... lifetime of the A7V - 5 Months. But, this doesn't mean a thing, it is annoying to ME though. ASUS is another company on my hit list. Meaning, I'm getting pissed at them. They do make the best boards at the moment though, the QA is better than others (ABIT, MSI, FIC, GIGABYTE). This cycles though, 6 Months from now, MSI will be better QA and ASUS will be putting out crap. It's true. I think their all the same company anyway.

Bongolation. Since your so deadset against Intel, all I can offer is the following.

Ali is an interesting company, I didn't realize they were even still in business. The last ALI chipset I used was on the K6-2's, which I should add was the best chipset at the time compared to VIA's offerings, MVP or whatever it was. I may be wrong here though, I'm assuming AliMagic is Ali-alladin.

Why RAID, and why the requirement for DDR? What type of track count do you need, what are your objectives? Based on that maybe I and others may be able to give other suggestions.

If you do go Athlon, get one heavy duty heatsink fan, and get a retail box version (which comes with HS/FAN) - not OEM. I thought AMD was getting better at the heat thing, but I'm getting somewhat discouraged with this company. Higher MHz, god GHz now, heat is surely an issue for all. I loved the K6 and K6-2 line, these were rock-solid machines for normal uses, not really for daw or heavy gaming. The Athlons are good, no question, just choose your other hardware very very carefully.
 
Thanks for the heads-up on the heatsink thang; I probably won't end up with a boxed CPU, but there are good deals on excellent fans for these and I was checking out the tests on them recently.

Being an old-school tech, I dope these with thermal grease anyway, just to make sure. Supposedly, AMD has a thermal shutdown protection function of some sort, so I guess having that happen or not would be the real acid test. I'm a real thermal-failure nut, but my usual business of multiple-fan systems is unfortunately contraindicated for a quiet DAW. This is sort of a stumper for me.

My choice at this point is to go with a DDR non-RAID MB, simply as a cost issue. AMD and DDR were specifically recommended by the manufacturer of my sound recording hardware, so that's good enough for me. Unfortunately, I see nothing about their choice of motherboard chipsets.

My whole question at this point is if there is or isn't any known issue with ALi MAGiK chipsets being unacceptable for DAW. In the absence of any persuasive evidence, I am about ready to spring for the ALi MAGiK-based motherboard, 1.2GHz T-Bird CPU & fan option for $168 on Pricewatch and see if I can make it work. If not, it becomes an upgrade for the office box and I'll start again.

I'll give rec.pro.audio a cruise for more info on this, and if I don't get any, then I'm just going to live dangerously and see what happens.
 
123

If you want a DDR athlon board, go with the Asus a7m266. True AMD 760 chipset, not an off brand that doesnt work with your hardware.
If you want to go dual (highly suggested) check out the new Tyan board for Dual amd's (the amd 760mp chipset)
or best yet, wait a few months and get a dual board with the 760mpx chipset and put 2 1ghz in it. They are expected to be about $200. Team this with windows XP, and you'll have performance, baybeee! :) I expect Sonar to enhance dual cpu performance in the near future too, so its a good idea.
Peace,
Paul
 
tubedude said:
If you want a DDR athlon board, go with the Asus a7m266. True AMD 760 chipset, not an off brand that doesnt work with your hardware.
If you want to go dual (highly suggested) check out the new Tyan board for Dual amd's (the amd 760mp chipset)
or best yet, wait a few months and get a dual board with the 760mpx chipset and put 2 1ghz in it. They are expected to be about $200. Team this with windows XP, and you'll have performance, baybeee! :) I expect Sonar to enhance dual cpu performance in the near future too, so its a good idea.
Peace,
Paul

I'm pretty sure I want to do something less radical than go for a dual. Having the lowest frustration threshold on the planet, I don't need the grief of dealing with bleeding-edge tech and all its attendant gremlins. I recommend that everyone work with explosives at least once in his life, as it teaches caution and technical conservatism as vital life virtues. 8-)

Also, the SeaSound is restricted to Win98, which is OK with me for now. No new firmware upgrades, no support - which one never really expects anyhow. No regrets whatsoever with this choice at the $340 price, but I do want to do something with it besides look at it, however beautiful it may be (and is).

I just want an AMD/DDR MB I know will work so I can get the SeaSound up and checked out within my 30-day guarantee period and me making stable recordings of my noise. I have been told here that the ALi MAGiK chipset will not work, and have not seen good reviews of its stability (which I presume to be crucial to audio) in most MBs employing that chipset.

Every time I get ready to buy a MB, it gets shot down for some reason.

The A7M226 looks OK (whatever that stupid comment means), though it's pretty expensive for what it is, over $100 more for the bare MB than I can get an ALi MAGiK DDR motherboard WITH the 1.2 T-Bird/266 CPU...which of course, is no deal if it doesn't work.

So, you feel sure that the A7M226 will work with this rig?
 
"So, you feel sure that the A7M226 will work with this rig?"

I would think that the only "sure fire" way to know if a particular sound card will work with a chosen mobo, is to make sure that it follows the manufacturers reccomendations. If there is a problem then the manufacturer can give you support to get things going. Since Seasound is no longer, and you really want a computer with DDR, I would get your computer as soon as possible and rely on the 30 return policy at Guitar Center. If it doesn't work, you can always take it back. There are pleny of other cards that will work with a DDR setup if the Seasound doesn't.

The chipset is one of the most important aspects of the motherboard since it controls all input/output functions, like memory, harddrives and busmastering protocol. If you can find somebody else with the Seasound using an Ali Magik chipset, you have a good chance of it working for you, too.

So far the best DDR chipset is generally considered the AMD760. This is the chipset in the GA-7DX, as well as in the Asus A7M266. I can not make a specific reccomendation for your sound card, since I don't have a Seasound. But many DAWs have general characteristics. What often works or doesn't work with one, often has similiar behavior with other soundcards. It was interesting to note that previously all of the soundcard manufacturers were warning about VIA chipsets and advising to stick with only Intel chipsets. However, this is changing and will work with newer VIA or AMD chipsets.

As I posted earlier, I have a Digidesign 001. So far there have been only two DDR motherboards that have successsfully worked with the Digi 001- the GA-7DX and the A7M266. Motherboards with the VIA KT266 chipset to date have not been able to initialize. Also, the Ali Magik chipset has shown problems and can not get the soundcard initialized. On the otherhand, the VIA KT133a chipset (which uses regular SDRAM memory chips) works fine and is a strong performer in the Digi 001.

All of this indicates to me that I would agree with Tubedude, that the A7M266 is a good choice. It is not a guarantee, but given all the information, it is a good choice.
 
# All of this indicates to me that I would agree with Tubedude,
# that the A7M266 is a good choice. It is not a guarantee, but
# given all the information, it is a good choice.

Hmm. Well, at the price it certainly should be.

I will probably go with this MB as I can't find anything bad about it on any of the hardware sites - which of course means nothing in that they've apparently never heard of digital recording using computers.

Best deal so far on Pricewatch is about $168, stripped, plus the usual gouge on shipping..
 
Keep in touch with me... I have 2 a7m266 motherboards in boxes in my room (over 3 months now) that people I was building DAWS for never finished ordering. I'm gonna call and see if they gave up, and sell the shit. A couple cases, new MB's, and all that shit starts taking up alot of space. The MB's are brand new in the boxes, never removed. I opened one box and read the manual that was in it. I also have a 1.2 mhz AMD in the retail box with fan and heatsink (200mhz FSB) that I'll sell too if these people aren't ever gonna finish thier puters...
I ordered the 1.2 mhz AMD for like $240 (dude prepaid, thank God) and now 3 months later its like $140 in the retail box. Might be able to get you the mobo and the CPU for about $200-$250 or so. I'll check. Want a case w/300 watt PS too? IN the box never opened!
Paul
 
tubedude said:
Keep in touch with me... I have 2 a7m266 motherboards in boxes in my room (over 3 months now) that people I was building DAWS for never finished ordering. I'm gonna call and see if they gave up, and sell the shit. A couple cases, new MB's, and all that shit starts taking up alot of space. The MB's are brand new in the boxes, never removed. I opened one box and read the manual that was in it. I also have a 1.2 mhz AMD in the retail box with fan and heatsink (200mhz FSB) that I'll sell too if these people aren't ever gonna finish thier puters...
I ordered the 1.2 mhz AMD for like $240 (dude prepaid, thank God) and now 3 months later its like $140 in the retail box. Might be able to get you the mobo and the CPU for about $200-$250 or so. I'll check. Want a case w/300 watt PS too? IN the box never opened!
Paul

Yeah, e-mail me about this, but if I'm going to do it we have to get on it soon, as daylight's burning on my 30-days with GC. I can have a postal money order on its way in no time, but I'd prefer PayPal or something if you do that, as it would save time.

bongolation<AT>worldmailer<DOT>com
 
tubedude said:
Keep in touch with me...

Not easy, as I can't e-mail you. Check the previous message and get to m on this asap.

bongolation<at>worldmailer<dot>com
 
Tubedude, if you haven't gotten rid of that equipment, and are still wanting to sell it, please contact me. I'd be interested in cpu/mb.

The Athlon 1.2 on Asus A7m266 is so awesome. fast, rock-solid. I wouldn't mind having another.

Romeo
boogiejr@hotmail.com

ps: $140 for the retail boxed 1.2? I saw the oem for $112 at gogocity. why is the box so much more? better warranty?
 
123

My fault guys! I promised one MB to a guy at work, if he doesnt pay by wednesday, I'll let one of you have it. The other is still sitting, and I don't know what the hell is up with it. I'll try to call again tomorrow.
Retail box has long warranty, and includes the heatsink, fan and gunk. Oh, and manual.
 
Just broke the bonds of Intel last week with an Athalon 1GHz on Abit KT7E (KT133)($90), 512mb PC133 ($25/stick) and upgraded HHD to WD 60Gb 7200rpm ATA100.

Most cardmakers are reporting compatability with KT133 and KT133A. My Darla24 is not a high-end card, but it sure took advantage of new hardware! 28 compressed, verbed test tracks thus far at 48 with no hickups. What a relief!:D
 
Re: 123

tubedude said:
My fault guys! I promised one MB to a guy at work, if he doesnt pay by wednesday, I'll let one of you have it. The other is still sitting, and I don't know what the hell is up with it. I'll try to call again tomorrow.
Retail box has long warranty, and includes the heatsink, fan and gunk. Oh, and manual.

OK, if that's a 1.2GHz/266, I'm interested in the entire thing, MB, CPU and case as a package deal.

I need to get this done ASAP or make an order elsewhere.
 
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