akg c414 hype or not hype?

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Caotico

Caotico

for all the right reasons
I've heard a lot of hype on the c414. Are they really as good as they say? Does anyone hate them? Why? The GC guy told me that pretty much anything pro is either a u87 or a c414 on the vocals. I don't believe him (of course, he was hoping I'd drop 1000 bucks). Anyway, I'm just curious.
 
Used a pair on overheads a couple of weeks ago, and they sounded great.

The guy from guitar center is part of the cancer of musical equipment sales.
 
Caotico said:
I've heard a lot of hype on the c414. Are they really as good as they say? Does anyone hate them? Why? The GC guy told me that pretty much anything pro is either a u87 or a c414 on the vocals. I don't believe him (of course, he was hoping I'd drop 1000 bucks). Anyway, I'm just curious.
That's so funny I almost spewed my tea. Obviously he knows nothing.
 
a decent number of pro recordings are going to have a C414 or U87 somewhere in the mix...but to state that ALL of them use these mics, especially on vocals, is absurd

but yea - 414's are damned good mics...it'd be hard to find anyone who says they don't like them
 
414's are typically not my go to mic for vocals, but a U87 definately gets a lot of jobs there. 414's however are awesome on toms, snare, overheads, acoustics, percussion, piano etc... They are an excellent balance between price and quality and do a great job on just about anything you put them on. Every pro studio I ahve ever been to or pro engineer I have ever talked to has at least two of each. The guitar center guy you talked to was full of shit, but accidentally gave you a good recommendation.
 
The C414 isn't a perfect mic. Great on some vocals. Not so great on others. Works pretty well for overheads and instruments (guitars, percussion and piano at least in my case). I'm currently looking at a pair of B-ULSs and deciding whether to keep them. They are ubiquitous in the business, but that doesn't mean that they are great on everything.

The model makes a difference as well -- and there are lots of them and it's confusing. Here's a post of Teddy's from GS quoting from a history of the mic.

"From the "Famous" C12 to ........

It all started when the famous AKG C12, valve classic, was superceded by the C12a. Rather then using the 6072/12AY7 valve, as in the C12, the C12a utilsing a miniature "Nuvistor" type valve. This, together with smaller/modern components, enabled the body of the C12a to be very much smaller then it's predecessor. The C12a was our first introduction to the famous rectangular box shape that we have come to recognise as a kind of "trademark" from AKG.

When AKG introduced their modern semiconductor designs, the prefix of the figure 4 was utilised. The first microphone to carry the new number scheme, being the C412 i.e. a semiconductor version of the C12/C12a. Still using the same CK12 capsule as that in the C12 and C12a. The C412, had 2 on board switches. One for polar pattern selection, the other for attenuation. There seems to be various "Attenuator/Pad" levels e.g -10dB & -20dB, throughout the history of units produced. However ..... as the attenuator was purely a potential divider in the output stage of the microphone, there still were minor problems with distortion, as the FET amplifier could be still easily be over-driven by high SPL's. The C412 had only 3 switchable polar patterns i.e. Omni, cardioid and fig'8. Whereas, the C12 and C12a had 9 possible polar pattern settings. This was OK for some users, but many found this a move backwards. The BBC, one of AKG's respected/influential customers, found that the C412 was unable to fill the place of the C12/C12a, as 3 polar patterns were insufficient for many applications. After much back and forth conversation's between the BBC and AKG, and other users, an up-dated version of the C412 was introduced. Basically the same as the C412, with an improved attenuator i.e pre-FET amplifier stage, and more importantly, the addition of a Hyper-cardioid polar pattern. As this new microphone had 4 polar patterns, the last digit of the older C412, was changed to a 4 i.e C414. Thus the start of the C414 series of microphones.

The C414 was available in 2 versions. Either, the C414E, with cannon type connector or, the C414C with a connector to the "Din standard". The C414 proved be a strong competitor to the Neumann U77 and U87. The U77, being Neumann's first semiconductor version of the U87. Note that the U77 was one of Neumann's earliest microphones with a transformer-less output stage. Mainly due, to the 12volt "T" powering technique used at that time..

The next version of the C414, was the C414EB. Much the same as the C414, with the addition of a 3 position Attenuator switch (0,-10,-20dB) and 3 position Bass roll-off switch (Flat, 75, 150Hz). One of the major, long term, improvements, was that of the connector type. Since the introduction of the C12a, including the C412 and C414, a stand mount/connector combination had been used for mounting, and electrical connection, of the microphone. This would prove to be very unreliable throughout it's life, so the introduction of a built-in cannon type connector on the C414EB, was of great benefit to all users.

During the production years of the C414EB, manufacture of the "original" CK12 capsule ceased and a modern nylon version (2072-Z-0005) was introduced. This replacement would never live up to the standard of the famous CK12, that had previously made AKG large capsule microphones so wonderful. The tonal qualities of the nylon CK12, are just so different from it's predecessor.

A remote control version of the C414EB was produced. Known as the C414E1. This would be very useful in "Fixed Rig" situations, as the polar patterns were remotely adjustable via the S42E1 remote control box. The S42E1, offered 9 polar patterns and facilities for 2 microphones. The C414E1 looked identical to the C414EB, without the polar pattern switch. The housing used, was that of the C414EB. Hence it still had C414EB stamped on it, with the addition of the word Remote, where the polar pattern switch would have been. The capsule and pre-amplifier, were the same as that used in the C414EB. However, the polarising voltages, for both sides/faces of the capsule, were derived from a DC/DC converter in the phantom powered S42E1 box.

The "Digital Age" was now upon us, and the need for quieter microphones was very apparent. Enter the C414EB-P48. Until this time, the previous C412 & C414 series of microphones, could be powered from any "Phantom" power supply, offering +12 to +52 volts. However, the C414EB-P48, was designed to work purely on +48v phantom supplies. The polarising voltage for the capsule, is taken from the +48v supply via very high value resistors and high voltage tantalum reservoir capacitors., rather then the previous way of using a DC/DC converter. The tantalum capacitors were to be a fault liability in the "long term".

A new model, the C414B-ULS, was the next microphone to emerge. The suffix ULS, denoting that the microphone had a "completely linear transfer characteristic of all transmission parameters". Looking just like a black/matt version of a C414EB, the C414B-ULS offered better performance figures and reliability, then the C414EB-P48. The electronics took on a highly complex design. Utilising no less then 17 transistors, as opposed to the previous 4 transistors in earlier designs. Whether or not this maze of components could improve the sound quality, would be food for thought. However, we did see the return of the DC/DC converter for polarising the capsule.

Getting the iron out of the audio signal i.e. no coupling transformers, was all the rage at this time. The C414B-TL (Transformer Less) version of the C414B-ULS was introduced. Offering less distortion at high SPL's then the C414B-ULS. Sounding somewhat dryer and more clinical then it's predecessor.

AKG were to re-create the sound of the original CK12 capsule, in a new nylon version (2072-Z-0009), similar to that already in production. This new capsule was to be used in the "Gold Grill" C414B-TLII, also in the C12-VR, valve microphone. The only audible difference, between the TL and TLII, being a "Presence" boost.

Currently, we have the "New Look" C414B-XLS, and a transformer-less version, the C414B-XLII. Many new features are found on these units. The capsule being mounted on a internal elastic suspension system, rather then the previous fixed block method. Logic circuitry is used for switching of all parameters. With LED display of chosen settings and overload. A big difference, is the provision of a 5th polar pattern i.e. Soft Cardioid. Therefore, I wonder why the microphone was not called the C415B, following the tradition of the last digit being the amount of fixed polar patterns available. Who knows ?
"

Lots of people have preferences as to which model C414 they think is best. I haven't had the good fortune to try them all (just the B-ULS), but I get the impression that the older EB model with a C12 capsule would be a really nice mic. As with most of this stuff, you really got to try it out -- especially if you are planning on using it for vocals.

Depending on who you talk to, you will get mixed opinions on the U87 as well with loving it and others much preferring the older 70s model as opposed to the U87ai.
 
your GC rep can blow me too.

U87 is a pro mic, along with 1000 other mics..

as far as the 414 and u87 being the only two mics.. he was trying to sell you the mic, and he doesnt know shit. go back there and asked him about peluso's, blues, gefells etc.

he'll know plenty about the ones the store sells, even though the asswipe has never used a single one of them.

i hate them..

when i go to GC, i look for the old guys, they typically know there shit. the young people are asswipes.
 
Over the years I have toyed with sellign my 414's. In every case though I have "rediscovered them" and have always been glad that I did not part with them. They were my first great utility mics:)
 
AKG 414B-ULS is my favorite mic for acoustic guitar(over sm81s, pearlman tm-1, oktava mk012, AT4041s, sp c4, milab vip-50).

It's just a great mic to have always have ready to rock in the mic stand because it generally sounds anywhere from good to great, regardless of the source. Occasionally it sounds amazing.
 
mrbowes said:
AKG 414B-ULS is my favorite mic for acoustic guitar(over sm81s, pearlman tm-1, oktava mk012, AT4041s, sp c4, milab vip-50).

It's just a great mic to have always have ready to rock in the mic stand because it generally sounds anywhere from good to great, regardless of the source. Occasionally it sounds amazing.


Mrbowes -- you pmed me a while back and I tried responding, but apparently your box is full. Give me a little space and I'll get back to you. :D

Thanks!
 
I prefer the C414 to the U87 for vocals, and yes the model I have used offers great versatility for the price (I think it's a C-ULS - not mine so I'm not sure).
 
If I was in bizarro world and someone told me I could only own 1 microphone for the rest of my life, but I had my choice of anything, I'd choose a C414.
If I could only own 2 mics, I'd choose a 2nd C414.
 
I have one and it seems to work just fine....I got mine used for $350...after seeing a few programs with them being used I was sold...but for my vocals Im just not that crazy with it.
 
Having tried a couple C414 B-ULSs for a couple days, I actually prefer an SM7 for my own vocals. The C414 presence peak is wrong for my voice.

On the other hand, one of the local big time studios here in the Twin Cities went and retreived a C414 from a friend of mine that had been used 5 or 6 years ago on an album because the artist was cutting a new album and only "that mic" would do. They sent a courier up at night from 45 miles away to get it. I think it is an EB model.
 
What I think is telling

is that guys who have them rarely get rid of them, unless they're kids with more cash than talent or experience and they're looking for something that's going to make them sound 'professional'. Now the guys that keep them may not use them primarily for vocals, but they use them, and use them and use them.


As far as what I see the big stars using, most of the pics and videos I see (granted, they may be 'staged') are of vintage c12s.
 
Most people that I know that are selling 414's still have at least 2 or 4 in their possession:)
 
there isnt really an answer to that. you have to try it and see if it works for you. the numbers of people that own them and suggest them say a little , if not much, about how well it is recieved.

I like the old EBs myself, and not the newer ones, but there is no doubt in my mind that you can get great results from them..
 
darrin_h2000 said:
I have one and it seems to work just fine....I got mine used for $350...

Where would you find one for that price?
 
pohaku said:
Currently, we have the "New Look" C414B-XLS, and a transformer-less version, the C414B-XLII. Many new features are found on these units. The capsule being mounted on a internal elastic suspension system, rather then the previous fixed block method. Logic circuitry is used for switching of all parameters. .

I wish I knew what "transformerless" and "logic circuitry" meant. Are these differences improvements? Or is that pretty subjective.

I've mostly seen the XLII and the ULS I think. Are there going to be some significant differneces in sound with the different models?
 
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