After an X32, looking again for a studio analog mixer

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jeden

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I wrote a couple posts a few months ago, asking for help and suggestions for a recording/studio analog mixer. In the end, I bought a Behringer X32. So I discarded the original idea of the analog mixer, but just because I couldn't find one that fits with my needs.

Happy with the purchase, it's a great mixer, but I realized that am underusing it. I'm actually using it as a A/D converter. So I am thinking about selling it, but I don't know what to replace it with yet.

I have 3 options:
- analog mixer (similar to the Behringer MX8000 or Mackie 24/8) + 24 A/D - D/A converter (such as the Cymatic uTrack24)
- 2 Saffire 40 + another USB or Thunderbolt preamp where I can connect the 2 Saffire via ADAT
- Soundcraft 22MTK

Unlikely I'll choose the latter, because I've realized it doesn't have inserts, and it lacks of individual phantom (it's a global on or off)

My regular use is for drum recording (13 mics), plus a few keyboard/synths, a vocal mic, bass & guitar, but I also have a few hardware gear (a compressor and 2 preamps) and I have a few others in my list.

I'd prefer to go for the analog mixer solution (so getting back to the original idea), but still I don't know which one.

In terms of I/O and features, both the Behringer MX8000 and the Mackie 24/8 are what I am looking for. But I haven't heard good words in both cases. The Soundcraft Ghost seems a good alternative, but it's hard to find (in Poland at least). What I need from an analog are:

- at least 8 subgroups
- direct out on all channels
- switchable input from mic/line in or tape
- switchable phantom on all channels

The obvious reason is that I would want to use the mixer for out-of-the-box/hybrid mixing.

As far as I know, there's no (unless insanely expensive) new mixer that fits with these requirements - so the only option I have is a used one.

Any suggestion?
 
See if Allen & Heath have anything you may like ZED series maybe?

I have been using a couple of different model analog live mixers in venues and I like the sound of them.

Alan.
 
First of all, individual phantom switches aren't a necessity. I ran a commercial recording studio for 20 years and never turned the phantom power off on any of the channels. The only exception to this would be very old and expensive ribbon mics, or if you are using an outboard mic preamp and (for some reason) plugging it into the mic input on the board.

Secondly, what exactly isn't the X32 doing for you?

You are correct, the Mackie and Behringer 8-bus consoles have all of the downside of analog boards, but none of the upside. You are also correct that you really need to spend a ton of money to get any real analog goodness out of a mixing board. Cheap entry level mixers aren't going to give you any of the analog magic, they will simply give you the inconvenience and expense of analog.
 
witzendoz said:
See if Allen & Heath have anything you may like ZED series maybe?

Alan.
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Thanks Alan,

I had a look at all ZED models (and not only :)), I found the ZED-R16 interesting, but it's very, very expensive, and limited to 16 channels only, although it also works as a multitrack audio interface (but using firewire, which might be a potential problem)

All other non multitrack models are limited to 4 subgroups only. I would prefer 8 at least, to play with analog summing in the future. The 428 looks pretty good, but it would be a compromise for that reason, so I discarded it.
 
Farview said:
First of all, individual phantom switches aren't a necessity.
Click to expand...

Good to know... I thought that it might be a problem for non condenser mics

Farview said:
Secondly, what exactly isn't the X32 doing for you?
Click to expand...

Isn't doing: nothing at all. It may sound a nonsense, but it's for the opposite reason, it does too much.

By that I mean that it's complicated to use, a lot of routing options, I don't have the time to learn, also I tend to quickly forget things I don't use often, so every time I don't hear what I expect I have to spend quite a lot of time trying to figure out if I did something wrong on a track, a bus, etc.

Also I thought that I needed the channel strip, but for recording I don't, since I prefer to do a raw, unprocessed recording, and process it later, in my DAW. The channel strip is useful when I just play without recording, but I don't really need that.

Speaking of problems, instead, the only one I have is that Behringer is not releasing an iOS11 compatible version of the iPad app. That makes me thing they are no longer supporting it - although I see they have recently announced a new expansion card.

Overall it's a great mixer, really. It's just that I don't feel it's the right choice for me.
 
Not sure if it is at all helpful but you might try looking at analog summing boxes. Used , I mean. Pay for as many or few channels as needed, do everything else ITB. Youtube search Dangerous Music summing.
 
+1 To Jay's point about phantom power, really not a problem but keep faders down when 'hot swapping' mics (should not do it really!) .

If anyone is REALLY bothered by 48V they can always make up an isolator box, XLRs +caps+Rs. Put a polarity flip in it for good measure!

Dave.
 
Phantom is only really a problem with some ribbon mics.

I suppose we should ask what the budget is if the ZED series Allen & Heath are pricey for you.

Alan.
 
witzendoz said:
Phantom is only really a problem with some ribbon mics.

I suppose we should ask what the budget is if the ZED series Allen & Heath are pricey for you.

Alan.
Click to expand...

I was referring to the ZED R16, which is expensive for the value: on Amazon it's around $3000, with 16 channels only, no subgroups - although it looks like it has a good EQ. If could be a viable option if it were a 24 channels for the same price.
 
Gtoboy said:
Not sure if it is at all helpful but you might try looking at analog summing boxes. Used , I mean. Pay for as many or few channels as needed, do everything else ITB. Youtube search Dangerous Music summing.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea. A all-in-one console would be better, but probably what I am looking for doesn't exist any more... at least not at a reasonable budget
 
I think what you are looking for never existed at the budget you are looking for. The Ghost was nearly $10,000 new...

I still don't understand getting rid of the x32 because it doesn't more than you need. You can easily turn off the eq, compression, etc... when recording. You can also mix with it.

If you get an analog board, you will also need an 8 channel interface. If you want to mix through the board, you will need compressors, outboard effects, cables, patchbays, etc...

As someone who went from an analog board and tape and owned all the outboard gear when I went digital...keep the x32 and learn it. It does some amazing things that you can't do with a bottom of the barrel mackie.
 
I've got loads of equipment that has features I never use, but I can't imagine losing any of them and swapping to something more basic, because sure as eggs is eggs, one project will come along and need exactly the facility you predicted you don't want. I have an X32 I use live, and from time to time it sits in my studio doing multi-track inputs to my Cubase system because the Tascam interface I normally use runs out of channels. It sits there grabbing audio from a few synths and keyboards with the faders just sitting in a row - because all the mixing gets done in Cubase. I could do all kinds of things with moving faders and ins and outs, but it just does A to D and D to A rather well. I can't imagine swapping it because it's a bit over specified.
 
Yeah! Like when I go to Sainsburys in my Veyron. I know I can't go over 40 but I wouldn't change it for the world!

Bugger to park!

Dave.
 
Thanks everyone for the valuable input. Special thanks to Fairview, who made me mediate a lot.

I think that the X32 is best used in a live environment, but that doesn't mean it's not usable in a studio environment. I still think it has more than I may possibly need, but now I understand that I can do whatever I need, I just have to learn much better than I currently do, especially in the routing area.

However I still have an analog console in mind. It's an experience that I have to do, maybe just to realize that digital is better or easier or cheaper. I'll take an eye on used gear, waiting for the right deal to bring home a soundcraft ghost, or something equivalent. Still unsure about the Mackie 24-8 and the Behringer MX-8000, maybe if I find one in excellent conditions I might decide to give a try.
 
If you feel you have to do it, go for it. But realize that it will be a downgrade in sound quality from the X-32 AND you will need to buy outboard processors to mix completely on the board.

The 'feel' of an analog mixer isn't any different than mixing on the x-32, you just don't have to screw with patchbays and outboard effects. It's still faders and knobs. Since you don't have the budget to get an analog console that sounds better than the x-32, the advantage to having one is gone.

Mixing on an analog mixer is the same as mixing on the x-32, just more inconvenient and expensive.
 
Jeden,

The Behringer MX8000 (or the previous version MX900 --- I think) is an excellent desk with some amazing features.

I have over the years installed three in live theatres and one only a few months ago in a small recording studio and all are doing an excellent job.

BUT, be sure to get one with the meter bridge.

However having said all that, I would definitely stick with the X32 and although it was designed as a FOH desk, it is not hard to use as a recording desk and it has the ADAT connectors for direct connection to a recorder or DAW that has ADAT facilities.

DAVID
 
CSP said:
Jeden,

The Behringer MX8000 (or the previous version MX900 --- I think) is an excellent desk with some amazing features.

I have over the years installed three in live theatres and one only a few months ago in a small recording studio and all are doing an excellent job.

BUT, be sure to get one with the meter bridge.

However having said all that, I would definitely stick with the X32 and although it was designed as a FOH desk, it is not hard to use as a recording desk and it has the ADAT connectors for direct connection to a recorder or DAW that has ADAT facilities.

DAVID
Click to expand...


Actually I found a guy posting several interesting videos about out of the box mixing with the MX8000, and that is probably what mostly inspired me when I watched the first video months ago. However I hear contrasting opinions about the console itself... although more positive than the Mackie.

Definitely I wouldn't take one without a meter bridge. I I found it very useful using the X32, and I could hardly do without.
 
Man i can certainly contest to the fact that the X32 is way more than just a Live mixer. I run my as an interface for Logic Pro X, Pro tools 11 and Ableton and it's awesome. Although I do still use some automation and effects in the daw a little bit, I save so much processing power by using what is built into the X32. It's unreal. I use it to record into the daw, save my scenes for different instrument input combinations. Then I mix down playing back through the x32 and also save scenes for each song and mix i'm working on. Any changes I make or fine tuning i do I save and then the next time I bring that piece up, BAM, its all right there where I last left and saved it. And i mean it saves everything. Gain structure, routing, busses, matrix set-ups, aux and insert routing, effects assignments and settings....everything. And you can do that for live settings for getting a room dialed in and rung out and saved so you never have to do it in that venue again. Just have to fine tune the band. But for recording, this thing is fantastic. I like to do a lot of dynamic mixing and use my faders to cue and bring things in and out and bounce the stuff down and keep on rolling with it until everything start to come together. It just keeps bouncing down and getting more pieced together with every run through. And the great thing is that you can keep bouncing different tracks or takes as you make changes dynamically on the mixer. And because you're not using a ton of plug-ins and automation you're not taxing your processor which leaves room for way more tracks and takes while keeping the buffer size nice and low for basically no latency. You use all of the great processing built into the X32 to do the work so you don't tax your machine. If you want to use your DAW to do all the automation and cueing and use tons of plug-ins, then just get a couple scarlett interfaces for your inputs and let the machine do the work. But the X32 is a bad ass console for recording, mixing, mastering and it takes a huge load of work off of your computer. Especially if you hook things up right and you use a G-Raid drive for storing and running you projects and a good SSD to store and run all of your sound libraries. Then all your computer is doing is storing and running the DAW and Plug ins. You can run super low latency with no pops an clicks because it's not processing a ton of effects or automation. And Ive had projects with upwards of 60 tracks from creating new tracks to try different effects off the board as well as different EQ's and dynamics ad nominations of then all un til i Find and create the right one. Just jeep processing with the board until you get the track you want and the delete the others. I boucle down and dynamically mix onto a gard disc so I can seep running them bak into the daw and through the mixer again util its right and I get the fine two track take I need for eporting. This thing is bad ass in the studio. And Live you can still save all your scenes and room mixes as well as band mixes. You can crate amazing matrixes mixes for sending a live performance to multitrack with its own and also record two track at the same time. The X32 takes sometime to get used to, but saying its too much is an excuse to not want to work at what you're doing. There are many amazing tutorials and videos online, you can learn so much for free. Not to mention some really good inexpensive courses that show you how to do a lot. And if you can run a patch bay and all the connections it takes to get an analog board running right, you can learn the x32. It's the same thing just being done internally and not with a million cables, outboard effects and switching units to go from record to playback mixing. Its the same thing just inside the machine. It's really not that hard or complicated. Nobody likes menu diving. But work with it for a while and before you know it you'll be doing what you need blindfolded.
 
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I know it's an old topic - but this latest post is on the money. It's hard to find anything about X32s to moan about. They do so much, and the others mentioned do nothing by comparison. Having the same mixer for studio and live work is a HUGE advantage because you get really proficient. We have an X32, an X32 rack and a Midas M32 and I too love them.
 
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And again, having had both a soundcraft Ghost with racks of outboard gear and an X32, I would pick the X32 ever time. Even with the upgraded opamp chips and other modifications i made to the ghost, the X32 would still win.
 
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