AEA R84 is what everybody claims...

  • Thread starter Thread starter Bodhisan
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Bodhisan

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It's just that my applications are too subdued to take advantage of this incredible mike. I've used it for more energetic vocals, and it beats anything I've got. Miking a bass, guitar cab, just sounds so smooth. But my stuff is mostly acoustic folk, and this just isn't the mike for me. I've got it posted in the "for sale" section if anyone is interested.
 
What preamp are you useing?Its a nice mic! Maybe you should experiment a little longer before you give up on it...Just my 2 cents
 
Henri Devill said:
What preamp are you useing?...
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I was going to ask the same thing. This thing should be the "bees knees" for acoustic stuff, but ya gotta have a good pre...
 
I've tried all three pres I have -- VTB-1, VC3Q and the Focusrites on my MBox. They all have 60 dbs of again, but I'm still not getting a strong enough signal for the volume I play with my acoustics (except fiddle -- and really, it's worth it just for that). I was hoping it would be the "bees knees," but I was also warned by several people that it's tough to get a strong signal with acoustic instruments, but I wanted to chance it.

I would imagine an easy answer to this would be get a Great River, Avalon or even an RNP, but for a home enthusiast, it's still a gamble at a fairly high cost, and in reality (correct if I'm wrong), those pres don't go higher than 60 db anyway, so the signal won't be any stronger...
 
According to Grace, a version of the 101 can be had with 70dB of gain.

"Also, the model 101 is available with an extended gain range input (10-70dB) designed for gain-hungry ribbon microphones."

Not sure if it cost more than the ~$500 version, but you can read about it here: http://www.gracedesign.com/products/101/model101.htm

That's probably the <$650 pre I'd use for acoustic stuff anyway, regardless of the mic choice.
 
Flatpicker -- funny you mention the Grace 101. That's what I've been looking at. Actually, it is (the actual 101) the one that has 70 db -- via an extra 10 db of "trim" addition to the 60 db of input gain, much like the VTB-1 has an extra 12 db on the output (theoretically giving it 72 db of gain). These numbers concern me, though, because, like I said, I do have the VTB-1.

It's unfortunate that nobody that I know of around here affords me the opportunity of a/b'ing an expensive name pre with something like a VTB-1.

A nod goes to Chessrock, though, because in the Rack forum, I swore on the VTB-1, but maybe "you get what you pay for" also applies to pre's. Gee...

I can buy a Green River single. Any comments on the GR vs. the Grace 101?
 
I made the following clips with my AEA R84 I use in my personal studio. I used a preamp which juices up to +70dB of gain. It effortlessly powers up the mic, but anything with that much gain will most certainly.

http://www.nowhereradio.com/artists/album.php?aid=2079&alid=1018

Don't give up on the mic! I am having great results with it as my room mic about 9' high pointed diagonally at the kit and it's stunning. I've found it to be a real sweet mic on acoustic and electric guitars too (beauty for cab mic'ing)...it's nice to have around. For what it's worth, everyone we've sold any of them to has nice preamps to work with as well (we are an AEA dealer).

I'd look at upgrading that pre to something hotter before selling the R84.

My $.02 worth.

War :cool:
 
Don't get the Green River single, the cd is much better. (Or do you mean Great River in which case.........never mind, grab one)
 
Bodhisan, it sounds like you've made up your mind. FWIW, here's my recording using a pair of R84s... both finger picking and strumming. The first section of the clip is mono, then stereo. This was recorded using Mackie VLZ preamps... pretty much balls to the walls. But, if your sole purpose is to record acoustic gtr, other hi quality LDC/SDC may suit you better.

Acoust Gtr Spaced Mic R84 Mics
 
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If your going to spend the extra $ for a GR, then you should also consider the John Hardy M1. I believe it has an option of an input impedance matching switch for ribbons.
 
Thanks the clips, Warren and Sonnix. The guitar picking you were doing, Sonnix, is much closer to what I do -- volume-wise, and it sounds really wonderful, as does mine, but I couldn't tell what kind of room noise/hiss from cranked volumes you had. That's my problem -- the noise factor. I get a great sound, but along with it comes the room noise. Is your track relatively quiet in the background?

Flatpicker -- Yes, I am also looking at the John Hardy. It looks like I'll be biting the dust, but for a good cause, eh?

I've got a friend close by who I just found out has the two-channel GR. I'm going to hop over there and not only hear it for myself through a nicer pre, but get his professional opinion on possible recording techniques/sounds/ears that I'm just not up to par with.
 
Bodhisan said:
That's my problem -- the noise factor. I get a great sound, but along with it comes the room noise.
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Some acoustic treatment might be in order, check this out:

http://www.mojopie.com/foam.html

I use two of those behind my R84 to cut down on room ambience when needed. The drum clip I posted has 2 behind it etc.

War
 
Bodhisan said:
Sonixx -- where was your front mike placed?
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if memory serves, both mics were about 18 inches away. the front mic was to the left of and slightly down from fret 15, pointed at fret 15. the shoulder mic was over and even with my right arm/shoulder pointed at the bridge.

-keith-
 
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Bodhisan said:
... but I couldn't tell what kind of room noise/hiss from cranked volumes you had. That's my problem -- the noise factor. I get a great sound, but along with it comes the room noise. Is your track relatively quiet in the background?
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I've never measured the ambient noise level in my room, but it's never been problematic. high ambient noise is problematic regardless of the gain of the mic. whether the gain is in the mic or preamp, it's still amplifying the ambient noise. the problem is when a mic has low gain and high self noise, then significant amounts of preamp gain amplify the mics self noise. but, I don't think you're going reduce the ambient noise problem with a higher gain mic and lower preamp gain. you will reduce preamp gain noise with a lower self noise preamp.

-keith-
 
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Sonixx said:
...the problem is when a mic has low gain and high self noise, then significant amounts of preamp gain amplify the mics self noise...
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Not a problem here - passive ribbons like this one have no self noise to speak of.

Sonixx said:
...but, I don't think you're going reduce the ambient noise problem with a higher gain mic and lower preamp gain. you will reduce preamp gain noise with a lower self noise preamp.
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Right. If your problem is room noise, no mic in the world is going to help you there. You'll just have to move it closer to the source.

Of course, when you do that with a ribbon, the bass increases significantly due to its great proximity effect, so you'll have to use an EQ to even it out. Ribbons are way easier to EQ than condensers, though. I think that partly has to do with them being so flat to start with.

One thing's for sure, with the Grace, John Hardy, or Great River, you'll never have to worry about pre-amp noise.
 
Keith/Flatpicker/War: This has to be preamp noise -- a slight hiss. It actually is less in the MBox's Focusrites than the VTB-1. With fiddle, there's no problem -- plenty of signal to beat out any preamp noise. I'll let you all know how it goes through my friend's GR.
 
another enlightening thread guys. this is kind of a question with potential to be a suggestion: i was wondering, i know the r84 has its own character just like any other mic, blah blah, but if you like ribbons, would it be worthwhile to sell the r84, and put some extra cash towards a phantom powered royer?
 
My friend had me over last night, and we did some comparing with the GR and VTB-1 with the R84. Not only that, but I've spent more time with placement and post-recording e.q. on this mike. Without much elaboration, I love what I'm getting from the R84, especially with the fiddle, mandolin, banjo, and miking my Peavey Nashville as a bass amp -- best bass sound I've ever gotten. Thanks for your suggestions and having me hang in there.

Bubbleboy: It's a good suggestion, but it's doing me good now (or I've learned how to work it better).

Sidenote: I think I was hasty to sell it because I desparately wanted it to work with my vocals, but I just don't produce enough noise out of my mouth to really get its full benefits, and this is what I should have stated in my original post. The C1 is still my vocal mike of choice, but I just bought the T3 last night, so...we'll see!
 
I think in the long run you'll be glad you kept it...

-keith-
 
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