advice on consoles and multi track recorders.

[borntoplease]

hey everyone... i dont know if im posting in the right forum... so if im not, feel free to move me. ive really been getting into audio engineering. ive always played in bands and recorded, now i want to get on the other side of the glass. i just started some audio engineering classes and i am wanting to put together my own studio. like i said, i just started my classes, but ive been reading enough to understand some of the process. i want something more than just a little workstation to do projects on, i really want a good setup with quality equipment that i can add too when the times comes. first up is the console. im learning on a soundcraft ghost. i dont need something that big, more along the lines of 24 channels. i have heard a lot of people throwing around a lot of names and im pretty confused. i dont need a million dollar board but i do want something of very good quality... probably in the 2k-3k dollar range. if anyone can direct me to a thread or a website that has reviews where i can compare that would be great. i want something with a nice warm tone. 2nd. for getting started is it better to start off going straight into my computers hardrive or should i get a multi track recorder, and then transfer over to my computer. i have been reading some good things about the HD-24, and it seems to be priced nice. 3rd. mic pres. if i get a good board is it necessary to get stand alone pres, or is it just a matter of taste. like i said i like warm rich tones, i love the sound of analog. and im wondering how i should achieve these tones... i have many more questions... but i think those are enough for now... thanks a lot.

 

[manning1]

there are so many options to boggle your mind. but i dont want to confuse you. heres one of many alternatives if you have the budget.
i prefer the computer daw solution. more flexible imho.
if were me i would look at a high end amd athlon system capable of doing 60 to 80 tracks. far more tracks than the standalone. maybe an amd 64.
maybe a lynx or rme sound solution. or cheaper a delta sound card for the
amd. but its critical to success to check with the vendor of the sound solution if its compatible with the proposed chipset and motherboard in the
athlon pc. you can get a amd pc around 500 bucks that will do easy 40 tracks.
for consoles. god so many. you could look for at a midas for example
a nice used high end console from a large studio.
scan the internet for broker deals.
for multitrack software for the pci would recommend you go to hitsquad.com
and try the demos. i use and recommend powertracks from pgmusic.com due to its price and features for 49 bucks(48 tracks). but you might prefer
another.
you will have to make a decision on mics and monitors. lot of it is personal choice. my own are cad mics, and beyer mics,,,and yorkville monitors....
i could go on , but this is a bbs.
for specific q's just ask and search under my name for lots of posts in the past year. just do a ton of demoing of gear. because your needs might be totally different to mine.
frankly i wouldnt spend much. some people overspend.
if were me i might consider a budget approach like a delta sound card
in a amd pc with a yamaha mg mixer and a few standalone decent pre's
yorkville monitors...and you can do all this prolly for around 2.5k if you shop right. and you would get decent sound and 60 tracks.

 

[Strryder]

borntoplease,

The real issue with a hardware setup like you described is what the actual total cost of a functional system comes to, you mentioned a 24 track stand-alone recorder setup with a 24x8 console, now add all of the cabling required to hook these two units together, and most likely a patchbay for convenience while routing output busses/direct outs to the recorder, if that were the extent of it, things would be fine, but unfortunately there is quite a bit more involved.

1) Compressors

If you need 10 or 12 channels of compression while mixing, you'll need 10 or 12 channels of compression in your rack, along with these come another patchbay and enough insert cables and studio snakes or other cabling to hook everything up to the patchbay.

2) FX processors

You will probably want at least 4 decent multi-effect processors in your rack, one or two dedicated to reverbs, a delay or two, then flanger/chorus, at least two units is a good place to start, you'll need yet more cabling and possibly a third patchbay.

I used to run a 16 track analog reel to reel and a 24x8 console, along with a rack full of outboard gear, just the cabling/patchbays alone was well upward towards a thousand dollars.

Switching to a computer based setup, I was able to "retire" about 10 thousand dollars worth of gear.

I'm not trying to scare you away from what you want to do, I'm just giving you a head's up on the road you're considering.

Some things you'll want/need no matter what that aren't as exciting as the recorder/console are..

Monitors, either active or passive with an amplifier

If you'll be tracking bands, you'll need at least 5 or 6 pairs of headphones and a multi-channel headphone amp to drive them, plus headphone extension cords.

Mics and mic cables, there's too much to get into here, but maybe 4 dynamic SM-57 types, 1 decent kick drum mic, and a couple of condensers for starters.

Snake, maybe 50' 8x4 to start with, but a 16x4 won't get outgrown too fast.

This stuff could easily be a couple of thousand dollars and even more if you are going for good stuff.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

If you're just starting out and just need something to work with at home forget about microphone preamps. Just get a decent used analog console and you'll be fine.

Later on you may want to get a good mono mic pre for vocals or snare, but that can honestly wait.

For mics I'd recommend budget condensors like Rode NT1's or AKG C2000's. For dynamics the SM57 is a good, cheap choice... and you'll probably want an AKG D112 laying around for kicks/bass. For small diaphragm condensors the AKG C1000 is okay for stuff like high hats and acoustic guitar.

To mic a drum kit you could do it fairly economically like this:

Kick - D112 ($199)
Snare - SM57 ($90)
Toms - SM57 x3 ($90 each)
Overheads - C2000's ($199 each)
High Hat - C1000 ($199)

End cost--about 1100 bucks. Not bad really. Those are NEW prices as well. You can readily find them on eBay for a bit cheaper.

You can get by with a single decent stereo compressor if you are willing to run previously recorded tracks thru it and 'bounce' them back to your HD recorder. Keep bouncing until everyone is done.

You can do the same with other fx... get an old Yamaha SPX90, they are pretty cheap. Maybe a TC M*One.

Now if you start exporting your audio to a computer DAW environment you can take advantage of plugins and advanced wave editing... which is a major plus.

A lot of HD24 users, myself included, occasionally will record to the HD24 and then bump everything into the computer for fine tuning, only to re-bump it to the HD24 to mix down on (avoiding that nasty digital summing). It's worth considering for more indepth projects.