Advice on a soon to be built studio?

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gabinxs

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Hi guys! A little about me:
My name is Gabriel, 32, from Argentina.
I play drums, and a few years ago, I started to develop interest in recording/mixing/etc.
I'm actually not accordingly equipped for starting a studio (I only have a notebook, a small usb interface, and a mic - wich I have been using for laying out some demos and covers for my band) but I'm trying to learn new stuff and the equipment will come along as time goes by.
I found the forum while searching for some info on designing/building a studio. I was wondering if you could help me with some questions I have.

A short description:
My main idea is to build a rehearsal room for my band / recording studio, in my house. I will be using it for personal purposes (not commercial - unless I get good at it...). It will be on the upper floor of a not yet constructed expansion of the house.
The stairs (on the bottom right corner of the first 3 images) would be inside the house. The stairs would be accessible from another room wich leads to other parts of the house and to a double door leading to the yard. This is the door that possible recording bands -beyond mine- would use; to avoid them trouble while carrying gear throughout the house (at least at first - they'll have to deal with the stairs after that), and to avoid having the rest of the house exposed to "strangers".

Location:
My house is located in the middle of the block, and there is a long corridor to get to the street, so I won't have much trouble with street noise. Since it would be the only construction located on the upper floor, it won't have adjacent rooms.
My most close neighbours are a car deposit and an auto shop. The good thing is that I don't think I'll ever get a complain from any of them regarding the noise. The bad thing, is that the auto shop's noisy sometimes.

Time frame:
This project is not something I will be doing NOW... Luckily, near the end of the year, or maybe next year (due to some issues with the land I'm going to expand my house in).

The floorplan:
The structure would be comprised by the rehearsal / recording room, a control room and a small booth for vocals.
I've made a basic design in 3d with Sketchup (1st image) and showed it to a friend who works in sound and has a small studio in his home. He recommended to avoid parallel walls. So, I've searched the forum and found that while some people say that you SHOULD avoid them, others say you can a have a rectangular room if you treat the walls accordingly. My first attempt (not in images) wasted much more space than what I was willing to. One of my main uses, as I said, would be to rehearse with my band. So I want a space that fits the musicians and gear in a comfortable way, trying to keep the shape of the room as simple as possible.
So, I've changed the design (2nd image). The sizes are in mm.

The outter walls are 200 mm, the walls inside are 100 mm (with drywall panels and rock or glass wool). The space between the real and fake walls is 100 mm (in the floorplan I omitted this space, so the inner walls are 200 mm: 100 mm wall + 100 mm space)
The floor would be wood. The doors -if this project really "grows on me" (along with my learning / skills)- could be real studio doors.
There would be a window in the control room, and another one in the vocal booth, so the singer can see the live room.

I don't know if I'm missing any other important data; if so, or if you need aditional data, please let me know.

My questions are:
1- Would there be any significative changes from changing the design on the first image to the second?
2- If there is, or there could be an improvement from image 1 to 2, is the second design even more improvable?
3- In the 3rd image I emulated a possible instrument location. According to this, should the walls have carpeting, acoustic foam, acoustic panels, diffusers? Where?
4- I have no clue of what is the best option on how to do the ceiling, or what to do on it.

Of course, I'm open to every kind of comments, suggestions, advices, tips, general knowledge, etc, etc.

Well, that's it. Hope my english doesn't suck as much as I think, and that my ideas are clear (it took me more than an hour to write this haha).
Thanks a lot!!
 
Two suggestions:

1) No vocal booth. The one in your design is too small and it won't sound good. Looks like your measurements are in millimeters and the width of the vocal booth is barely wider than a person. That won't work at all. I recommend recording vocals in the large room.

2) give some consideration to not having a wall between the live room and the control room. The added space is beneficial, especially for recording acoustic instruments and vocals and more room is more comfortable for rehearsing.

Your english is very good.
 
Thanks for your advice Chili!
The vocal booth was just an alternative to take advantage of a space that seemed wasted and disturbed the shape of the control room, it was never meant to be a must (although it would be cool to track a live band with singer included...)
 
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Hello!
Good job on the sketch!

The second sketch looks a bit better on paper, but not so sure if it really is for a few reasons:
You're reducing the volume of the room by enclosing the vocal booth area. As suggested above, the vocal booth would not be the best use of construction funds. It is much too small! Instead, you could use some gobos to get less instrument bleed for a singer if you needed to track multiple people at the same time in the live room.
Enclosing the back half of the room might still be better for symmetry, but its hard to know for sure.
Also, the angle you've got doesn't look to be large enough. 6 degrees per wall (12 degrees total) is the minimum suggested for removing flutter echo. Regardless if you build angled walls though, you'd still want to treat the control room around the desk position.
The only thing the second picture really has going for it is the fact that you're centered on the shorter wall. I would suggest this whichever way you build out the room.
Another option could be to put your control room on the 'bottom' of the space shown, with the desk facing left. This would give you room for a slightly bigger, but more symmetric control room.
 
Thanks for your comments GIK! I think the angles are 6º, can't remember exactly, but that what I was aiming for.
As you said, I thought about using some gobos if I need to track a complete band including the singer. As I said to Chili, the booth just came up as a way to take advantage of a space that was kinda wasted, and to even the back of the control room.
I am working on some alternatives to this design, moving things around the room to try to find the best option I can...
I'll post some tomorrow...
Thanks again to you both!
 
GIK, I've noticed what you said about putting the control room on the bottom with the desk facing the left wall to gain a little more space, it's a good idea. The only thing is that I'll have the window on a side, and a wall on the other (as on the actual design...) should that present any problem?
Thanks!
 
Alternatives

Here are some alternatives... basically, I moved the control room to the bottom (as suggested by GIK).
This way I can move the desk from the front wall, and place a small sofa or something in the back for extra seating.

I re-checked the angled walls angles, and they are 6°.

My doubt (as I said on my last message before this one) is concerning the walls on the sides of the desk:
One has the window and the door, and the other is a regular wall...
What I mean, is that I could treat this last wall, if needed, but don't have much surface to work on the opposite wall to make it even.
What are your thought about this? Could this situation be problematic?

Thanks again guys!
 
Here's the 3d model of how it would look like, with the walls and stuff...
 
Your control room is still really small and will require a lot of absorption to flatten the freq response. I still say make it all one room.

But if not, the 3rd option looks the best to me, though it's not much different from the 2nd option.
 
Your control room is still really small and will require a lot of absorption to flatten the freq response. I still say make it all one room.

But if not, the 3rd option looks the best to me, though it's not much different from the 2nd option.

Hi Chili, thanks again for writing.
The control room size is 4.6 x 2.1 meters... is it small or just not wide enough?
 
Hi Chili, thanks again for writing.
The control room size is 4.6 x 2.1 meters... is it small or just not wide enough?

Creo que es muy poquito. But I will leave it to the experts to determine if the space is adequate. I can only give my opinion. There is a Room Mode Calculator that you can try. Here is a link:

http://www.realtraps.com/modecalc.zip

It will tell you which freqs to expect to be problematic based on the dimensions of your room.
 
Thanks once again.
I've tried an online room mode calculator at bobgolds[dot]com/Mode/RoomModes.htm
I don't quite understand the software you linked to (or the site I linked, for what's it worth haha)
I'm working on some other alternatives; I don't have much to work with, but I'm trying anyway.
Will post soon!
 
Something I found...

It's an image from a studio made inside containers made by John Sayers (taken from his forum)
Of course it must have a lot of acoustic treatment for it to sound good... but the size at least gives me some hope, since it looks like the space I have.
I forgot to say (if it's important) that I currently have a pair of KRK Rokit 5 monitors; if the monitor's size should affect the space to take account of for the control room.
 
Another alternative

I came up with another alternative... but as I'm writing this I've noticed that the long walls from the control room are not parallel :/
 
New alternative

Thanks again to all for your answers...
I've taken in account the advice some of you gave about having the control room and live room in just one space... So, I came up with this idea...
Comment on!
Thanks!
 
I'm no expert, GIK is. I hope he comes back to give his thoughts. I'm interested to see what he has to say.

In my opinion, there are compromises when you use the same room as both a Live room and a Mixing room, but I believe it's the best use of what you have available.
 
Thank you Chili! The most important thing for this room was to have space, and you were right to point out that I would be wasting space in two rooms that would be hard to treat (given their sizes). Do you like this last design? Any advice?
The room will be mostly used to rehearse with my band, but I also wanted to have a space where I could record some demos and such... I been doing that in a regular room, recording one musician at a time... so, this would be definitely an upgrade, since I could even track the whole band (or minus the singer)
Thanks again!
 
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