Advice on a PA?

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spoon_22

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Hey,

I'm about to start playing regularly with a four peice rock band, and I'm looking to buy a new PA system for vocals. I'm incredibly unsure as to what even to start looking for in terms of having equipment that will work for my needs. Here's my specifications:
Want to be able to play small clubs, bars, smaller venues of all sorts at a reasonable (but not metallica-esque) volume,
Need the power to be able to compete with a large guitar and bass amp to get a good mix.
Don't need to be able to play arenas or anything ridiculously big...
Would prefer the ability to have at least 2 mics, preferably more.
I would also like to be able to use whatever mic/speaker/etc... setup in recording studio environment...

I'm not looking for any kind of specific equipment reccomends, models, etc...just some general guidance on what a typical setup for vocals entails when you're playing with a rock band, so I can start to do some more pointed research. How much power, generally, or would a rack mount set-up with power-amps be a better idea for most applications, those kinds of questions.

Even just anecdotal "This is what I use" replies would be hugely appreciated.

Come to think, this message might be better for the newbie forum, as I obviously have no idea what I'm talking about...

If this is not specific enough or coherent enough to warrant answers, please let me know and I'll try to better clarify what kind of info I'm looking for.

Help is much appreciated,

Spoon
 
Quick Followup

Incidentally, if there's already been a post recently that deals with this question, feel free to just point me there -- I just didn't find anything doing a basic search...but I doubtlessly could have just been looking in the wrong places. Don't bother repeating if this info is conveniently available somewhere else...

Spoon
 
My band gigs with this:
Pair of 2-way PA cabinets
Pair of 18" bass bins
4 floor "wedge" monitors
16 channel board
50 ft snake
600 watt and 300 watt power amps for the mains
300 watt power amp for the monitors
rackmount processor for verb and delay
many long speaker cords for connecting it all up
Unless we are playing a LARGE venue,only the vocals are miced.Its lots less muddy that way.
 
How much do you want to spend? Even a simple, good sounding rig can run around 2 grand easy.
 
Tom Hicks -- Thanks for the info, that's real helpful.

Tex -- I'd be looking to save as much money as possible without buying terrible gear -- Used gear is great, but I'm not sure how much that realistically brings the price down. I'd be willing to drop 2 grand, 1500 would be ideal, but probably isn't realistic. Upper, upper price range is probably 3k.

Thanks,
Spoon
 
If you want to play pubs and clubs and dont want to put instruments through the PA, you dont need to invest in bass speakers and active systems (by active I mean systems where the pre amplified overall signal is frequency split and individually amplified to sets of dedicated speakers). This means a single amplifier and low number of microphone inputs. You have two choices, either opt for an all in desk / amplifier, these have the advantage of low cost and simplicity, often come with effects built in and are fairly low cost. The main disadvantage is that they provide only limited options for expansion later and cant handle a lot more than vocals. 2-300W / channel should be sufficient to compete with backline and I would suggest 12" speakers with added compression drivers. Dont worry about monitoring, the chances are you will have the backline very loud for the type of music you want to play and you wont get effective fold back at those levels without feedback problems. Get some good microphones the obvious choice at reasonable cost would be a Shure SM57 / 58.
I you have more cash you could go for a seperate desk and power amp. You will probobly need to add a seperate effects unit. Although this is a more compex and expensive system it does allow you to add more capability at a later date.
 
I would get a Mackie or Soundcraft as big as you can afford. A seperate Crown, QSC or Hafler Amp as big as you can afford but preferable 1000W or better. Two 12" JBL or EV speakers.

Avoid powered mixers and under no circumstances get a PA Head.
 
I disagree....
I think the Mackie 808s works great for a PA with plenty of power
 
Hi

I would not buy a system and plan on never running the instuments through it. Try to buy somthing you can expand on later. It will cost a few extra bucks here and there but I think you will be happier down the road. Tom Hicks is on the right track.

get a decent board (mackie 16 or 24 channel)
I personally would not get effects built in.

you'll want at least a 3 way crossover.

one good 31 band eq ran pre crossover as a main out eq
(another dedicated to vocals if possible, you could get it later)

a couple of two way cab's (make sure they are bi-ampable)

Some subwoofers are nice, I use 18 inch sidways loaded cabs
(you could do these later as well)

a 100 foot snake would be great!

Get a decent vocal mic!!!!!!!
(sm-58, EV n/d 267)

you will need decent monitors. I would go with 12 inch with a horn. I have a pair of carvin monitors I got for $350.00, they kick ass for the price. Remember Massive low end on monitors is useless. You want monitors to cut through the stage volume, that is why I prefer 12's.

one kick as high output stereo amp (use one side for subs, one side for low side on two way cabs)

another good stereo amp. (one side for horns, one side for monitors) You could cutt back on the watts a little on this amp if needed.

It would also be nice to have a quality effects processor.
You don't need much more than delay and reverb for live. You could even live without reverb most of the time.

It would also be nice to have a compressor/noise gate.

Now you can go buy 10 of every cord in the music store and still say crap I need one of these at setup time:)

You will find having most of the sound coming from the mains is better than having it coming from 5 different directions. When sound waves crash together in the middle of the room it can get ugly. Think of it as a crash up derby as opposed to a 4 lane hwy.


Just my opinion.


F.S.
 
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