hixmix
Halibut, North Dakota
What can I expect to be a fair price to pay for having an acoustic dreadnaught refinished? The guitar is natural blonde and would have the neck as well as the body refinished.
Light
New member
hixmix said:
For the labor, $1500-$2000. IF you did all of the prep work.
Plus, of course, you would loose half the value of the guitar.
Basically, don't do it.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
stetto
Left Unattended
Light said:
WOW! I gotta switch my line of work! I get that for painting a small house...
Depending on the guitar, isn't that true of simply walking out the store's door with it?
I agree, as I'm also aware of the resonance changes that can occur with a refinish...It can be risky.
Eric
F
flamin-gitaur
New member
If your gonna do ALL the prep work..might as well finish it. 
stetto
Left Unattended
flamin-gitaur said:If your gonna do ALL the prep work..might as well finish it.
Good point, application is the easiest part...
Eric
philboyd studge
New member
hixmix said:
Unless someone steps on your beloved D-28, refinishing usually isn't advised, it's expensive and usually devalues the guitar. However, if the guitar means a lot to you and you're going to keep it and would like to have it look nicer, why not?
Over the last few years I've toyed with the idea of getting my Guild F-50R Special refinished back to its original look. A double pickguard was put on it in Colorado about 30 years ago and it has been played hard. It can be seen being played by Bob Weir in the movie 'Festival Express'. Still, I think I'll leave it alone.
Light
New member
stetto said:
Not if you want to do a proper guitar finish. It is one of the more annoying parts, but it's no where near as bad as wet sanding.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
Light
New member
stetto said:
It probably takes about the same amount of time to do either one.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi
stetto
Left Unattended
Light,
I've painted a few guitars, all electric solid bodies, the prep was definitely the time-consuming, nit-picky part of it. I used PPG auto finishes, applied with an HVLP in a booth--Excellent result...The actual application of material on the last one (2 coats primer, 4 coats gold metalic, 3 coats transparent apple red, 6 coats clear) took very little time--primer and color on day one, clear on day 2...Prep took around two weeks...
...Not to be so arrogant as to believe that an acoustic would be anywhere near the same operation, what part of the application should be so time consuming (other than prep)? I realize that auto finish won't do on an acoustic, but I've worked with several lacquers, and one thing I know about lacquer is that it has to go on pretty fast to maintain a wet-edge...
I have a old Seagull S6, from back when they were just called the "Seagull 6", what some here would call a host of names other than a great guitar. It plays like butter and has an intensely rich, full tone, and I only paid a couple hundred bucks for it--To me it's a great guitar. The previous owner wasn't very gentle, the cedar top is marred and scratched and scraped, having the trademark strumming gouges of a violent beginner--On which someone had rubbed some kind of wood stain to hide the abuse in a photograph...
The painter/perfectionist in me wants desparately to refinish the top. Problem is that I know how deep an oil wood stain penetrates cedar--And a refinish can also void all those years of seasoning that the top has gone through...Sure, it's a cheap Seagull, and I won't get into the "ear of the beholder" stuff...I saw Willy Nelson up close and personal a couple years ago, playing what looked like the most abused acoustic guitar in history...didn't seem to bother him any...I didn't check the brand but I'm sure it was a high-dollar axe, he played it like one of your sport-model speed guitars, but it looked like shit. Good enough argument to leave mine alone, at least until a better acoustic strolls into my life....
Eric
I've painted a few guitars, all electric solid bodies, the prep was definitely the time-consuming, nit-picky part of it. I used PPG auto finishes, applied with an HVLP in a booth--Excellent result...The actual application of material on the last one (2 coats primer, 4 coats gold metalic, 3 coats transparent apple red, 6 coats clear) took very little time--primer and color on day one, clear on day 2...Prep took around two weeks...
...Not to be so arrogant as to believe that an acoustic would be anywhere near the same operation, what part of the application should be so time consuming (other than prep)? I realize that auto finish won't do on an acoustic, but I've worked with several lacquers, and one thing I know about lacquer is that it has to go on pretty fast to maintain a wet-edge...
I have a old Seagull S6, from back when they were just called the "Seagull 6", what some here would call a host of names other than a great guitar. It plays like butter and has an intensely rich, full tone, and I only paid a couple hundred bucks for it--To me it's a great guitar. The previous owner wasn't very gentle, the cedar top is marred and scratched and scraped, having the trademark strumming gouges of a violent beginner--On which someone had rubbed some kind of wood stain to hide the abuse in a photograph...
The painter/perfectionist in me wants desparately to refinish the top. Problem is that I know how deep an oil wood stain penetrates cedar--And a refinish can also void all those years of seasoning that the top has gone through...Sure, it's a cheap Seagull, and I won't get into the "ear of the beholder" stuff...I saw Willy Nelson up close and personal a couple years ago, playing what looked like the most abused acoustic guitar in history...didn't seem to bother him any...I didn't check the brand but I'm sure it was a high-dollar axe, he played it like one of your sport-model speed guitars, but it looked like shit. Good enough argument to leave mine alone, at least until a better acoustic strolls into my life....
Eric
philboyd studge
New member
stetto said:Light,
I've painted a few guitars, all electric solid bodies, the prep was definitely the time-consuming, nit-picky part of it. I used PPG auto finishes, applied with an HVLP in a booth--Excellent result...The actual application of material on the last one (2 coats primer, 4 coats gold metalic, 3 coats transparent apple red, 6 coats clear) took very little time--primer and color on day one, clear on day 2...Prep took around two weeks...
...Not to be so arrogant as to believe that an acoustic would be anywhere near the same operation, what part of the application should be so time consuming (other than prep)? I realize that auto finish won't do on an acoustic, but I've worked with several lacquers, and one thing I know about lacquer is that it has to go on pretty fast to maintain a wet-edge...
I have a old Seagull S6, from back when they were just called the "Seagull 6", what some here would call a host of names other than a great guitar. It plays like butter and has an intensely rich, full tone, and I only paid a couple hundred bucks for it--To me it's a great guitar. The previous owner wasn't very gentle, the cedar top is marred and scratched and scraped, having the trademark strumming gouges of a violent beginner--On which someone had rubbed some kind of wood stain to hide the abuse in a photograph...
The painter/perfectionist in me wants desparately to refinish the top. Problem is that I know how deep an oil wood stain penetrates cedar--And a refinish can also void all those years of seasoning that the top has gone through...Sure, it's a cheap Seagull, and I won't get into the "ear of the beholder" stuff...I saw Willy Nelson up close and personal a couple years ago, playing what looked like the most abused acoustic guitar in history...didn't seem to bother him any...I didn't check the brand but I'm sure it was a high-dollar axe, he played it like one of your sport-model speed guitars, but it looked like shit. Good enough argument to leave mine alone, at least until a better acoustic strolls into my life....
Eric
Willy's is a Martin N-20.
Why not have a go at a sunburst on your Seagull? It's your guitar and you've got some skill, why not have some fun with it?
The finish on my Harmony Soveriegn was cracked and cloudy from being in Viet Nam with me and a few years back decided to take a shot at refinishing it. I ended up using a furniture stripper/refinsher to brake it down and left enough to keep a satin finish that came out suprisingly well. Funny, it looks like a typical Seagull now.
0
0018G
New member
$2000 sounds a little high, but $1500.00 is probably in the ballpark, but when you consider the procedure, it sounds pretty inexpensive!
In order to properly refinish an acoustic guitar, the bridge must be removed. On some instruments(Martin and others in that style, but usually not on Guild or Gibsons), the neck must also be removed-so there's a $300.00 neck reset right there. Lacquer doesn't always get along with binding-sometimes it will turn brittle after a short time and fall off. So it's best to replace the binding as well. The lacquer should be put on three coats at a time, allowed to cure somewhat, sanded back to almost nothing(but not through), and repeat. After nine to twelve coats, you must set the guitar aside for 30 days to cure fully-a year would be better, but it's not very realistic. Then you have to wet sand that thin, delicate finish until it's flat and then polish without buffing through it. Now remember, all of this is after you removed the old finish without sanding anything too thin(or sanding much at all if you can help it), and you've re-filled the grain and sealed the thing. Now you've got to put it back together. It's a huge job, it can be very rewarding, but it ain't no fun.
Electric guitars are a little easier in that you have a little more leeway as far as the thickness of the finish, and the fact that they are usually much easier to dissassemble. Also, automotive finishes require less cure time and are more durable than nitro lacquer-I have used them on solidbody guitars and been very pleased with the result.
In my opinion, an acoustic guitar should never be totally refinished unless it is to correct a poor previous refinish.
In order to properly refinish an acoustic guitar, the bridge must be removed. On some instruments(Martin and others in that style, but usually not on Guild or Gibsons), the neck must also be removed-so there's a $300.00 neck reset right there. Lacquer doesn't always get along with binding-sometimes it will turn brittle after a short time and fall off. So it's best to replace the binding as well. The lacquer should be put on three coats at a time, allowed to cure somewhat, sanded back to almost nothing(but not through), and repeat. After nine to twelve coats, you must set the guitar aside for 30 days to cure fully-a year would be better, but it's not very realistic. Then you have to wet sand that thin, delicate finish until it's flat and then polish without buffing through it. Now remember, all of this is after you removed the old finish without sanding anything too thin(or sanding much at all if you can help it), and you've re-filled the grain and sealed the thing. Now you've got to put it back together. It's a huge job, it can be very rewarding, but it ain't no fun.
Electric guitars are a little easier in that you have a little more leeway as far as the thickness of the finish, and the fact that they are usually much easier to dissassemble. Also, automotive finishes require less cure time and are more durable than nitro lacquer-I have used them on solidbody guitars and been very pleased with the result.
In my opinion, an acoustic guitar should never be totally refinished unless it is to correct a poor previous refinish.
stetto
Left Unattended
0018G said:
Heh heh, I got that!...
This is a mahogany body that I had to apply grain filler thrice...
I would have left it natural if it weren't for some major gouges in some very visible areas. This is the guitar I referred to earlier...
The Seagull I have has a bolt-on neck...Something I wasn't too thrilled about at first, but the tone is nice regardless, and it facilitates removal without a meticulous reset, I assume
...Gawd, now I'm thinking about refinishing again......Gee Hix, hope you don't mind your thread getting commandeered...
Eric
Last edited:
hixmix
Halibut, North Dakota
$1500-2000! Wow! I had no idea. I think I'll pass. It's a 1984 Guild D-37 that I've had for 20 years. I could buy two more for that or another nice Martin or Gibson.
The finish on the neck has some serious wear and the top has a couple of dings and scratches. I can live with that. I think I'll just spend a couple hundred and have the bone, nut and saddle replaced.
Thanks for the feedback.
The finish on the neck has some serious wear and the top has a couple of dings and scratches. I can live with that. I think I'll just spend a couple hundred and have the bone, nut and saddle replaced.
Thanks for the feedback.
Light
New member
stetto said:
Sure, it has to go on quick, but then it has to dry a lot, and then it needs to be sanded a lot between coats.
For what it's worth, my finishing schedule on an acoustic looks like this, and keep in mind that a customer can only really get up to the first step, which is one of the easiest parts for me (but then, I have pneumatic sanders):
- Sand the bare wood to 150 grit
- Wet the wood to raise the grain
- Wait overnight
- Sand the bare wood with 150 grit, and then with 220
- Within a few hours, spray a coat of vinyl sealer (the vinyl helps to prevent weather checking
- Fill the pours with a paste pour filler (on porous woods such as rosewood or mahogany)
- When the pour filler is mostly dry, wipe off most of the excess
- Wait overnight
- Sand off the rest of the pour filler with 220
- Spray another coat of vinyl sealer
- Spray 5-6 coats of lacquer
- Wait one week
- During that week, drop fill any dips, gaps, or sinks in the finish
- Sand with 320 grit to get the finish mostly flat, but be careful not to sand through anywhere
- Spray 4 coats of lacquer
- Wait a week, drop filling as necessary again
- Sand again with 320, and this time it much be completely flat when you are done.
- Spray 2 coats of lacquer
- Wait at least a week, and a month would be better
- Wet sand with 600 grit wet or dry sand paper
- Wait overnight
- Sand with 1000 grit wet or dry
- Wait overnight
- Polish, I use a Baldor buffing wheel and Menerza stick polishing compounds. Start with the fine polish.
- Wait overnight
- Polish again, this time with the extra fine polish
- Wait overnight
- Polish by hand with Menerza Intensive Polish liquid polish
- Polish by hand with 3M Finesse-It™ (which is what is called a polishing glaze, and is used to remove the swirl marks from the previous polishing
We would prefer to do all of this with the neck out, but that is an added cost. And of course, that list assumes you don't fuck anything up while your doing all that sanding. We generally end up with finish films in the 8 mils range, which is pretty damn good, but which is also pretty damn easy to sand through. Martin's are usually a little thicker than that, and Gibson's are frequently a LOT thicker than that. I do at least as much sanding on the finish, though, as I do on the wood. Electrics get the same thing, but there is usually some dyeing, staining and spraying of colored lacquer on them as well. And no, we do not use autobody paint for this. We use McFadden's Nitrocellulose lacquer, which is by far the most popular guitar finish out there right now.
Now, I will grant that we do one of the more involved finish processes of the small shop builders I've seen, but the results are much better because of it. When we go to shows, we usually have other builders asking us how we get such nice finishes, and always have all the knowledgable people saying that we had the nicest nitro finish in the room. It is involved, time consuming, and a real PITA (particularly when you remember that the chemicals involved are nasty and unhealthy, and it is no fun at all), but the results are better than anything else you are going to see.
Light
"Cowards can never be moral."
M.K. Gandhi